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Thread: Help with weird stance and eye dominance

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    Member Rick P's Avatar
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    Default Help with weird stance and eye dominance

    I have been trying to help my wife learn to shoot her shotgun. She has the most bizarre stance! Head cocked way over, leaning way back, part of the problem is she keeps trying to use her left eye! I tell her "use your right eye and lean into the shot" No sooner said than she is about to topple over backwards and her heads on sideways! Very frustrating!

    Any suggestions?
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    Member Rick P's Avatar
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    Crappy pic but it kinda shows what I am talking about......this was after working with her for an hour!
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  3. #3

    Default Try this....

    Has she tried to shoot left handed? It may seem a bit weird at first but it may help.

    I hope she's wearing shooting/safety glasses of some kind. If she insists on shooting right handed, put a piece of black tape or even scotch tape to blur the lens on the left lens of her glasses. This will force her right eye to be the dominant eye. Like trying to shoot left handed, it will seem weird at first but it should help.

    If shooting clay pigeons is something she wants to do more of, I've heard of a method where you wear an eye patch for a couple of hours a day on your left eye for a period of several weeks and some say it will help her right eye become her dominant eye. I've never personally tried it or know somone who has so I'm not sure how effective it is.

    Hope this helps. I help coach a youth sporting clays team here in the valley so I see this kind of stuff pretty regularly.

    Good Luck!

    Brian

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    Hard to tell from the pic, but looks like the LOP is long for her. Possibly enough to cause some of the problem. Good tips in the previous post.

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    Default Hey Bud'

    Looks like she is leaning across so that the left eye will line up on the bead, maybe not even consciously. Her posture could be leaning back b/c the bead isn't focusing 'right' (also perhaps not consciously...).

    Have you tried this: http://www.archeryweb.com/archery/eyedom.htm?

    If indeed she is right handed + left eye dominant, then she'll need to either train the non dominant eye to shoot, or learn to shoot a shotgun left handed (neither of which are easy). Between those two options, I'd try tape over the left side of a pair of safety glasses first and see how that goes.

    Hope that helps,

    Nate

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    Rick,
    Owned a sporting clays range for 10 years - worked with a lot of shooters.
    While there is good form and bad form many just simply have their own form.
    So, don't panic.
    I agree with the other posts - to me I see someone that needs some gun fitting. I would say from the pic it is too long and heavy - and she may be left eye dominant. I worked with a lady that had very similar stance. Nobody had told her to use her right eye - took a bit but after getting her to close her left eye ( she was right eye dominant ) she started breaking clays.
    I had a Ruger over under 20 ga that fit the gals well - also a Rem 1100 28 ga that I trained with a lot - try some very light loads, set up some stationary targets ( hang some clays on anything ) so your wife is not trying to do several things at oncel
    With only 1 pic its hard to say but I think buttstock is way to long for her on the gun in the pic. Find one someplace thats shorter, lighter, and keep recoil down until you get some better form going.
    Throw a 22 rifle in her hands and take a pic and see how that form looks - most 22's are much shorter and def lighter weight.
    What you don't want to do is make her frustrated, go slow and understand that she is different than you and I and be patient.
    Let us know what you try and how it works.
    Glad to help anytime.
    Randy

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    To determine eye dominance, get a washer (the round steel thing with a hole in the middle). Have her look at the top of a telephone pole that is distant, holding the washer so she is looking at the top of the pole through the hole in the washer. She is to bring the washer back to her face, never blinking, never loosing sight of the top of the pole. She'll bring the washer back to one side or the other.

    LOP is roughly the distance from the inside of the elbow to the center of the first pad on the index finger (roughly at the beginning of the fingernail).

    Trying to force someone to use their right eye when they are left dominant will cause great frustration and might end their shooting experience. I know, I am left eye dominant and right handed.

    Last thing, get someone else to help her. The worst person to try to help a female learning to shoot is a brother, husband ect.
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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Well from the picture I know what the problem is and the ways in which to fix her problem, unfortunately none of the fixes are cheap or easy. My favorite way is not something I have ever read in print and may not be what you want because in involves lots of going to gun shows and trying a lot of guns for fit.. Another way is to go to te east coast and have a fitter work on a stock that works for your wife. This is the most expensive way to fix your wife's needs. Then the last is to spend a live time shooting and learn the mistakes to get around the problem (which is what most of us do anyway) Check her eye dominance first thing first. It could vary well be that she is left eye dominate and wants to shoot left handed. It is a simple test and method that costs nothing to do. Using both eyes to shoot a shotgun for the most part is a mistake and is a method used for over a century to correct one shooter problem.
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    Default trimming a stock for LOP

    Somewhere along the way I picked up a tip on adjusting for length of pull that may work for others. Shoulder and grip the gun and measure the distance between thumb and nose. Look for about an inch and a half to two inches. Butt should be cut at right angle to the bore. Top of receiver should be parallel to the bore. I have used a 24 inch framing square with good success. Be aware of eye relief if it's a scope sighted rifle.

    Teaching your wife to shoot has to be right up there with teaching her to drive a standard. Maybe some outside help would be good! Let us know how this works out, especially the eye dominance. I have wondered about it before and some of the tips in this thread are great.

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    I'm right handed but left eyed. I found it easier to learn to shoot left handed then to have to close my left eye in order to aim. It stunk having to buy lefted handed bows and rifles (I still shoot right handed shotguns left handed) but my shooting improved after I made the switch.

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    Proper fitting gun and a little piece of clear tape over the center of the left lens on her glasses and all should be well. Her left toe should point somewhat toward the direction the target will appear with her right foot back some and about 90deg from the left at shoulder width. Slight lean forward with wood to wood and no aiming
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    Default right handed? wrong handed

    Don't fight natural eye dominance with preconceived ideas about whether the person is right or left handed; it won't work.

    Its OK to do everything right handed except shoot a rifle left handed.

    I myself am quite incapable/uncoordinated doing anything left handed yet when forced by a medical issue to never shoot a handgun with my right hand again a couple of decades ago, even I managed to switch.

    I can't brush my teeth left handed, but I do shoot handguns left handed. Its OK. Go with it.

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    I am left eye dom and right handed. I wish I had the correct way to move ahead for you, but I don't. I just kept plugging away by concentrating on using my right eye with long guns. I found a center stance shooting style with pistols that I can use either eye. Cheek to stock weld should help tremendously with using the correct eye; lots of practice to build that muscle memory is needed. She can practice hours in the house (unloaded, bolt-out) on building that muscle memory for cheek to stock weld and shouldering. I still find myself screwing up which eye, but it works out in the long run. You got a good head start just knowing the issue. I didn't know for like 10 years that was what I was even doing. What makes it even worse for me is that my left eye has better vision to boot.

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    Rick, I have a remington 1100 youth that you are welcome to try out....PM me if you are interested in letting her at it...

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    Yup, judging from the picture she's right handed but left eye dominant.
    Don't fight it...just let her shoot whatever's comfortable to her.
    If it's with her face down into the stock so that she can use her left eye...so be it.

    My Dad shot that way VERY successfully his entire life.
    Looked strange as heck...but it worked for him.
    Now I think it's kinda cool!

    It's a lot better than trying to get her to shoot left handed, etc.
    We deal with this quite often in classes, and it's kinda come to the conclusion to just don't fight it.

    It's kinda like a golf swing...if she dosn't look like the Jack Nickelous' Swing...who cares. She's unique!

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    Quote Originally Posted by arizonaguide View Post
    Yup, judging from the picture she's right handed but left eye dominant.
    Don't fight it...just let her shoot whatever's comfortable to her.
    If it's with her face down into the stock so that she can use her left eye...so be it.

    My Dad shot that way VERY successfully his entire life.
    Looked strange as heck...but it worked for him.
    Now I think it's kinda cool!

    It's a lot better than trying to get her to shoot left handed, etc.
    We deal with this quite often in classes, and it's kinda come to the conclusion to just don't fight it.

    It's kinda like a golf swing...if she dosn't look like the Jack Nickelous' Swing...who cares. She's unique!
    AZ,
    I don't think the pic does it justice - because the buttstock appears to be waaay to long for her arm length it has her head turned sharply as she is trying to get her face down. Add about 3 or 4 in on one of your guns and try to shoulder it and you will see why her head is turned sharply.
    She needs to find out if she is left eye dom though and have a gun that fits her much better. Nitroman has a couple great tips to figure that out .
    Randy
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    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
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    Cool. Sounds like Nitro has you on the right track.

    To determine eye dominance:
    1. With both eyes open, hold your thumb at arms length and cover the face of a clock (or the moon, something far away) with it.
    2. Close your right eye, then your left. Your thumb will appear to move back and forth.
    3. The dominant eye is the one where the clock face stays covered with THAT eye open.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by USMC RET View Post
    Has she tried to shoot left handed? It may seem a bit weird at first but it may help.

    I hope she's wearing shooting/safety glasses of some kind. If she insists on shooting right handed, put a piece of black tape or even scotch tape to blur the lens on the left lens of her glasses. This will force her right eye to be the dominant eye. Like trying to shoot left handed, it will seem weird at first but it should help.

    If shooting clay pigeons is something she wants to do more of, I've heard of a method where you wear an eye patch for a couple of hours a day on your left eye for a period of several weeks and some say it will help her right eye become her dominant eye. I've never personally tried it or know somone who has so I'm not sure how effective it is.

    Hope this helps. I help coach a youth sporting clays team here in the valley so I see this kind of stuff pretty regularly.

    Good Luck!

    Brian
    Great idea, Yes, that will do it, black tape over the the left lens of the shooting glasses. Why didn't I think of that. That will work with one of my grandsons. Thanks!!!! Sometimes we over look the simplest of solutions.
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  19. #19
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
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    Changing shoulder is an option in all cases but more especially an option for young shots or shooters who are new to shooting and hence have not yet acquired the ‘muscle memory’ linked to mounting and shooting a shotgun. Using this method enables both eyes to be used to gain the peripheral vision accepted as preferable when clay shooting (or pistol shooting).

    Placing tape on glasses is a common cure but one that attracts attention and can make new shooters very conscious of themselves. This method ALSO results in the loss of a considerable amount of peripheral vision/depth of field. There is also a risk that the glue from the tape may affect the lens material of the pupil’s glasses.

    The smearing of Vaseline on glasses sounds a good idea but can cause problems when you try to remove it. Hair gel that becomes opaque when dry is unobtrusive and washes off easily and is therefore easier to use. There is no doubt that this is a credible alternative to tape. BUT, this method however can again result in the loss of a degree of peripheral vision/depth of field (judging distance).

    Closing the cross-dominant eye is the most common cure for a ‘master eye’ problem (and results in similar problems to tape/vaseline). However informed comment indicates that the closing of the cross-dominant eye (or using tape, etc.) can further induce tiredness and pupil dilation in the shooting eye. Again this method results in the loss of a considerable amount of peripheral vision.

    Using the cross-dominant eye as the ‘shooting’ eye is rare, but there are a number of extremely good shooters who use this method to overcome the problem.
    I agree. I would either teach her to shoot left handed from the beginning...or just use the cross-dominant eye (with a proper fitted stock).

  20. #20
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    Default like many of you here,

    I am right handed, left-eyed. It was many years before I figured it out. I still shoot all scooped weapons righty but if I'm using open sights, i go left. It is weird but can be done. Just encourage her to practice and then practice some more.
    I also shoot bows left handed which took a TON of practice and I had to call on some muscles on the left side of my body I don't think I ever used.
    as long as she can see clearly and sight straight.

    Also, I know eye dominance is real but I don't believe it is THAT big of a deal. If you can see clearly through both eyes and have trigger control and have a comfortable, consistent stance, it doesn't really matter much.
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