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Thread: Lift question

  1. #1
    Member Scott in AK's Avatar
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    Default Lift question

    I just picked up a 17' Osagian, Honda 8hp and lift. I belive the lift is one that was made here in FBX.

    So my questions. Whats with the 20lb block of steel on the back? Is there a reason it needs to be that heavy? and has anyone removed and modified the lift with a lighter motor mount?

    Thanks

    Scott
    He who tries to tread on me
    will find himself in misery
    and this I promise faithfully
    upon my fathers name

  2. #2

    Default Picture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott in AK View Post
    I just picked up a 17' Osagian, Honda 8hp and lift. I belive the lift is one that was made here in FBX.

    So my questions. Whats with the 20lb block of steel on the back? Is there a reason it needs to be that heavy? and has anyone removed and modified the lift with a lighter motor mount?

    Thanks

    Scott
    Do you have a picture of what you are talking about that you could post?

  3. #3
    Member Scott in AK's Avatar
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    Default

    pulled pic from another thread, but the same lift.
    The circled piece is a solid steel block 1 1/2"x 5"x12"
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    He who tries to tread on me
    will find himself in misery
    and this I promise faithfully
    upon my fathers name

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    Default lift

    that should be a metal frame with wood as an in sert, the motor will clamp on, that will rest on top of your transom, I put a pice of wood betweel that an the top of transom so I would not have metal on metal hitting,
    use the thickness of wood to get the caveration plate with the bottom of the canoe, let it hang over the trasnom a little, an seal it to help keep the water out on your boat [ about 1/2 inch over hange is all you need] , when you get ready to install use "C" clamps to hold every thing it in place frist, to make sure it works properly befor you drill holes in the canoe, the motor will go up an down with one finger force on handle, the pivot point of handle will manage it for you,
    if the pivot point ends up in free space put a pice of wood across the back end for the pivot point to mount it on about an
    1 1/4 X 11 inch pice worked for me

    PS the motor bracket will sit on the edge of wood so you be the judge
    SID

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    Default Same Setup

    Scott, I recently invested in the same setup. 17' Osage with lift and 8hp Honda. I'm not sure I have much advice yet as it's pretty new to me, but thought I'd let you know I was out there playing with the same setup. I'd be eager to compare notes on the setup.

    I thought the same thing with the 20lb weight. I assume yours is the same as mine and there isn't a frame and wood insert. Mine was installed at the dealer here in Fairbanks and apparently the fit wasn't quite right and had to go back to the welder. That gave me an opportunity to use the boat without the lift, and I will say after some prop damage that for this areas rivers the lift is a necessary. the BF8A short shaft is positioned about right, with the cavitation plate at a pretty usable level with the lift down as well as up, effectively moving the cavitation plate just below or above the bottom of the boat. I don't have a lot of experience on the mounting or using this setup so I may find desire to adjust it down the road, but from what I've picked up so far the fit is pretty good and very usable. My main gripe right now is that the lift rides on the gunwales at the rear of the canoe and makes a lot of noise and vibration. Sid's recommendation of the wood is nice, but since there is no wood insert I'm trying to think of creative ways to buffer the lift without adding much/any height to the lift.

    My lift provides ample leverage to hoist the motor up/down without huge effort, but certainly not a one finger hoist.

    Another concern I have about the lift is the weathering. it's already starting to rust in places. I haven't had mine off the boat yet for maintenance, but it looks like it might be interesting to keep the moving parts in good shape. something more weather resistant would have seemed appropriate. Time will tell on this one. I'm tempted to do some proactive steps on this one.

    One other note I thought I'd throw in, I ordered a RockHopper for my 8hp motor, and I ended up with the wrong one. apparently there is a BF8A, and BF8D. the 'D' motor is the one with the more rounded engine cover that can be found on the Honda website, and has a larger skeg and lower unit. I'm still working with Ken at RockHopper on this and he's been good to work with, but it sounds like there hasn't been a pattern for this 'A' model done yet. be careful if you go this route with the 8hp Honda. Anyone with information on this topic would be helpful also.

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    Default lift

    as my lift came out of FB 25 years ago ,I througth you had the same one, it looks like mine is a little different, my canoe is alum type {GRUMMAN} that is why I put on top of my transom 2 x 4 works out for the OMC 10 / 15 HP, I never leave my Lift on my canoe always take it off { as I car top it } drilled a small hole in the pivot arms an used a needle greas adaptor for a grees gun an did it to it,

    PS you will use props even with a lift, if you don't use up props, you are not using the canoe an lift very much,

    SID

  7. #7

    Default Osage Lift

    Here's a pretty decent picture of the lift I built for my Osage. First, I wonder if that 'block' you're talking about is really solid? Or is it a piece of 1/4"walled rectangular tubing with end caps welded on and dressed down with a flapper disk. All I can be is wrong.
    http://i413.photobucket.com/albums/p...Picture020.jpg

    O'Sage, look at the 1" square tubular bars right over the transom, I siliconed some 1/8" red gasket material over the bottom of the lift arms area where it hits/contacts the transom. Works well and cures any vibration problem.

    Sometimes I run an old 9.5 Evinrude on this this rig when the waters up or I'm carrying a load. Plenty stout. Zack




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    Default Lift

    Zack, I had to look at mine but your correct, although I'm not clear on the flapper disk you mentioned, but it's got welded end caps. The lift does feel heavy, but the weight hasn't seemed to be a problem. I'd assumed the lift in Scott's original post is similar to mine.

    You can probably see the rust spots on the photo, and like I said I'm more worried about the long term weathering than I am the weight after I've used it a bit. I'm not too worried about the spots that are easy to get to, but I have yet to take it apart and see if I can get to the pivot points. I noted on your lift you had cotter pins where mine is welded on the cross bar.

    I like how you implemented the siliconed gasket material. I was thinking along the same lines, but hadn't come up with a plan yet, so this is helpful.
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  9. #9
    Member Scott in AK's Avatar
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    Default

    Yes it is a solid peice

    I will be looking to change it out to something lighter, perhaps to something like what you made Zack.

    O'sage yes lets compare notes, as I have the BF8A also.

    Do the rear mounts go on over or under the canoe edge?
    It seems to fit better under, so thats how I'll run it.
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    He who tries to tread on me
    will find himself in misery
    and this I promise faithfully
    upon my fathers name

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott in AK View Post
    Yes it is a solid peice
    Wow, that's a serious chunk of steel. Way overkill for the 1" square tubes it's welded to. Maybe it's all they had on hand when they built it. Good pics.

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    Default air

    That "20 lb piece" weighs 4.66 pounds/linear foot. It is 2" x 4" x 1/8" rectangular tubing, and probably a bit overkill, but that is my middle name. Were it solid, it would weigh about 27.2 lbs/linear foot, so your guess of 20 lbs was not too far off. The whole lift weighs about 30 lbs. I changed from the angle iron frame w/ a wooden 2x6 when people started hanging 15 hp Hondas on the lifts. They are a tad heavier than most other outboards (not much) that are hung on canoes, but have a lot more torque. The original frame work (transom) would bend with a Honda on it. The legs (1" x 1/8" square tubing) project through the first layer of 2x4 tubing, and are welded there and at the other side. The ends are then covered with thin plate and welded up to keep water and Chitina from collecting in there. BTW: I ran into a guy who had, I believe, one of my earlier lifts on a 19' Grumman (2 canoes, actually) and he was running 25 hp Mercs w/ jet pumps. No, that is not a typo: 25 hp Mercs. He'd been running that setup for years, too. I think that is likely the limit! john

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    Default under

    [QUOTE=Scott in AK;752554]Yes it is a solid peice•• No it ain't. See the other post I made.

    Do the rear mounts go on over or under the canoe edge?
    It seems to fit better under, so thats how I'll run it.•• On my lifts, those rear mounts (angle iron clips) go underneath; you nailed it, and that is why they have the narrow strip welded to them (accommodates the lip on the gunnel). If installed above, the 1/2" round (now that puppy IS solid) pivot rod would float out eventually, and that would get ugly. I had a guy call me many years ago, as that happened to him. I included instructions with all my lifts, but (no company name mentioned) would not issue them to people, at least for a while there. Really &^%$#@ me off. I think old man (no name mentioned) was afraid I'd start selling the lifts on my own if people found out who made them. Dunno for sure.

  13. #13
    Member Scott in AK's Avatar
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    Jklingle

    Thanks for all the info.

    The piece in question is 2x5x17, the bottom edges are rounded, like tubing.
    The top edge is squared, were they made with a piece of 1x2 barstock welded to the top? I driled 3/4" into the top and the bit was still cutting.
    this is what convinced me it was solid. (hole has been welded up)

    Perhaps it was modified at some later date.

    Seems to be a rugged piece of workmanship.
    BTW this setup was new in '01 or '02.
    He who tries to tread on me
    will find himself in misery
    and this I promise faithfully
    upon my fathers name

  14. #14
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    Default modified

    I was going by the pic of the green lift, which is a pic I took and posted a while back to clarify something. Someone modified the lift; I have never, to the best of my knowledge, welded anything solid on the top of a lift's transom. However, I made lifts for about 20 yrs and did a lot of customizing for folks. By 2000, I think I had sold everything to Pete. Yeah, let's blame Pete; he ain't here to defend himself. Either way, if it is a lift that Pete or I made, the 2x4 part is tubing. Good hunting. john

  15. #15
    Member Scott in AK's Avatar
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    OK then, Pete did it!
    He who tries to tread on me
    will find himself in misery
    and this I promise faithfully
    upon my fathers name

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    Default lift

    4 things

    # 1 put a pice of 2X4 across the stern wide side up hanging over about 1/2 inch , bolt it on too the canoe, put ""2"" 1/4 inch bolts through the 2 inch side so it will not splinter an break off, you will use a total of 4 bolts 2 vertical an 2 horiizontal in the 2x4 so it can't move or break off , make the 2x4 a little longer than the canoe is wide at that point, then bevel it forward so no sweeper can't get caught on it an flip the rig this will only raze the lift up about 1 1/2 inch on the eng mount end make sure you seal it

    # 2 have the eng mount part of lift sitting on top hanging over the end about 1/4 inch make sure the lift can go up an down with out the eng hitting the canoe you can sand the 2 x 4 if the motor hits it,

    # 3 have the pivot arm setting on top of the gunnels on a 2 X 1 1/4
    [about] pice of wood this will let you adj it so you can use 1 finger to pickup the lift with the motor on it under full power

    # 4 by doing this it wii alow you to take the lift off the canoe when you
    use pins to hold the rod in place
    I have put on a few of these in the last 25 years
    SID

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    Default the king of lifts

    Quote Originally Posted by jklingel View Post
    That "20 lb piece" weighs 4.66 pounds/linear foot. It is 2" x 4" x 1/8" rectangular tubing, and probably a bit overkill, but that is my middle name.
    I could be mistaken but it is my belief that you have personally made more lifts that are running in Alaska than any human on the planet. And 10, 20, and more years later, you're now offering some free customer support.

    It doesn't get much better than that. Thank you John.

  18. #18
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    Default Lift

    Did not make, just installed the ones from FB [not a welder] just a person that has used them a lot, an got tired of all the water an problems that other people had with them [school of hard nocks ]

    SID

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott in AK View Post
    OK then, Pete did it!
    Actually Pete did build mine. I only know because there were some delays getting it installed from the boat dealer and they had to send it back to get some welding done and specifically referenced Pete. I wouldn't have been able to come up with the name until it was mentioned.

    My mounting points are actually on the top of the gunwales at both the front and the back mounting points. I don't have a picture handy but I could post one tonight. I think this is a difference in the lifts, and as jklingel pointed out, under the gunwales seems a good option.

    Sid, so far I haven't really had water problems, but have kept things pretty tame up to this point. Do you have any pics of the mod?

  20. #20
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    Default True Klingel lift

    I have a TRUE Klingel lift on the back of my Osage canoe Mounted by John himself. I run a 15hp Johnson short shaft on mine. I have never had any problems at all. Wait I take that back, the only problem I have is all the people who stop and stare at my canoe on my trailer while I am in a hurry to get to the river or lake to go fishing...lol. You will be VERY hard pressed to modify this lift and it be an improvement. I have lived here since 1967 and have not found a better lift for a canoe bar none. John has forgoten more about the old knuckle buster lifts, than most people will ever know.

    Alaskan100

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