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Thread: Safety by the numbers

  1. #1

    Default Safety by the numbers

    This week it was reported that a guide was killed by his hunter. I also recall where a hunter was killed by his guide.

    Are there any numbers around that show where guides or clients have been killed by bears while hunting them? Not accidents incidental to hunting, but where a guide or client have actually been killed by a bear. Not injured, but killed.

    As weird as it may seem, statically our hunting companions my be deadlier than the wounded bear.

  2. #2
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 257wby View Post
    This week it was reported that a guide was killed by his hunter. I also recall where a hunter was killed by his guide.

    Are there any numbers around that show where guides or clients have been killed by bears while hunting them? Not accidents incidental to hunting, but where a guide or client have actually been killed by a bear. Not injured, but killed.
    Tom Smith at the USGS Bio Survey, Steve Herrero, and one of his staff grad students collected reports and published for peer review a data set in 2004 or 2005 that contained this info combined with all bear attacks. However, it missed a critical piece of data. They sorted their data by attacks where a gun as present. They did not define it further to determine if a gun was used during the attack or if the attack was from hunting or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time but armed. They also did not include reports were a gun prevented or stopped an attack with no resulting injuries. Very misleading data that statistically showed guns did not improve your chances of surviving a bear attack. Tom's peers at the time (Steve Nelson was one of them) asked him to further define the data, but I don't know if he ever did or if there was enough information in the reports to define it better. Looking at the Staff bio page for Tom it does not appear that the data was published. I know that Herrero did use it in some articles at the time and other people pointed out how missleading it was.

    Part of this data was used to determine a risk of attack at Glacier NP. Turns out that the bears are forced to use the same land that hikers do due to the terrain - so yes you are more likey to encounter a bear at GNP than in any other NP.

    [/QUOTE]
    As weird as it may seem, statically our hunting companions my be deadlier than the wounded bear.[/QUOTE]

    Since there are more deaths from "accidential discharges" during hunting season each year than mortal bear attacks in any decade this is pretty obvious that our friends, fathers, and childern are more deadly than any bear. Of course most accidental firearms deaths in AK do not take place during hunting activities. They happen mostly while cleaning guns and when two kids are playing with guns without adults around. Very seldom during hunting.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by 257wby View Post
    This week it was reported that a guide was killed by his hunter. I also recall where a hunter was killed by his guide.

    Are there any numbers around that show where guides or clients have been killed by bears while hunting them? Not accidents incidental to hunting, but where a guide or client have actually been killed by a bear. Not injured, but killed.

    As weird as it may seem, statically our hunting companions my be deadlier than the wounded bear.
    I don't think it would even be close. More bear caused fatalities than firearms when directly associated with bear hunting. Certainly more hunters and/or guides mauled by bears while hunting than wounded by gun shot. With Pennington (sp) both the client and guided were killed and with Cappasalo (sp) the guide died but the hunter was uninjured. The list of guides mauled while bear hunter is probably pretty long as I can think of five or six right off. Most of the bears had been stressed either by wounding or being "pushed" before mauling either the hunter and/or guide.
    With bears it is important to understand the differences when working with "stressed" as apposed to "unstressed" bears.
    Joe (Ak)

  4. #4
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Interesting question... maybe you could get some data from Africa. I've often heard that there you are more at risk from companion gunfire than dangerous critters but they hunt in much bigger groups than I've ever seen in AK.

    If you had prefaced your question "during all hunting" you are almost certainly more likely to be shot by a companion (or other hunter) than killed by a bear. Exclusively while bear hunting? That's a pretty close one I'd bet.

  5. #5

    Talking

    Then there was the guy from Eagle River, his partner shot him as he fought with the bear. The old "just shoot among us" type deal, to give one or the other some relief.
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  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Then there was the guy from Eagle River, his partner shot him as he fought with the bear. The old "just shoot among us" type deal, to give one or the other some relief.
    Was that over around Karluk?
    Joe (Ak)

  7. #7

    Default For Joe

    Can you shed some light on the hunting of stressed / unstressed bears.

    Thanks

  8. #8

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Was that over around Karluk?
    Joe (Ak)
    Yes it was. He survived to tell the tale and suprisingly enough, his partner did too. He did a little fooling around with taxidermy work, if you know who I mean.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  9. #9
    Member Roland on the River's Avatar
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    Default Karluz Mauling

    I was there and escorted Gary (uninjured ) to Larsen Bay. We then alerted a fisherman who contacted authorities and soon had a helicopter on the way. Craig, the injured actually was shot in the ankle as his partner was attemting to get the bear to drop the hunter. Later the 10+ bear was recovered and the mount was displayed in the sears Mall.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose knuckle View Post
    Can you shed some light on the hunting of stressed / unstressed bears.

    Thanks
    Though any bear should be considered a potential problem, if they have be stressed the chances of having a problem are considerably greater. Wounding is an obvious source of stress, however, either direct tracking or “pushing”, situations where the animal knows you are behind it and it is intentionally moving away are just about as bad. In most instances it is preferable to use the tracks as an indicator of the direction of travel and hunt accordingly rather than using the tracks to trace the animal’s exact movements. Lots of potential safety considerations when trying to “trace” the travel route by following the tracks, most are directly associated the stress caused by “pushing”.
    When working with an unstressed animal there is a lot more latitude when working in situations of restricted visibility and considerably safer – if bear hunting can ever be considered “safe”.
    Most hunting clinics usually address the issue in some form.
    Good luck
    Joe (Ak)

  11. #11
    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Default definitely not too proud...

    Quote Originally Posted by wantj43 View Post
    Though any bear should be considered a potential problem, if they have be stressed the chances of having a problem are considerably greater. Wounding is an obvious source of stress, however, either direct tracking or “pushing”, situations where the animal knows you are behind it and it is intentionally moving away are just about as bad. In most instances it is preferable to use the tracks as an indicator of the direction of travel and hunt accordingly rather than using the tracks to trace the animal’s exact movements. Lots of potential safety considerations when trying to “trace” the travel route by following the tracks, most are directly associated the stress caused by “pushing”.
    When working with an unstressed animal there is a lot more latitude when working in situations of restricted visibility and considerably safer – if bear hunting can ever be considered “safe”.
    Most hunting clinics usually address the issue in some form.
    Good luck
    Joe (Ak)
    to say that was a good informative post...and not vague at all. good advice, some that i personally learned the hard way.

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