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Thread: What are you guys thoughts on the kings??

  1. #1
    Member Theone2's Avatar
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    Default What are you guys thoughts on the kings??

    I know the king has been bad but lets hear other opinions on why this might be so.

    Post all your opinions and ideas..

  2. #2

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    Something crazy is going on out in the ocean. Talked with a buddy yesterday and we were wondering how far salmon traveled out in the salt. If there were only some way to track some of these salmon after release and see what the hell is happening out there. Whales, Illegal Comm Fishing, Global Warming, Water ph levels. Who knows?

  3. #3

    Talking

    From one fisherman to another:
    The old adage remains true:
    "Man, you shoulda been here yesterdee!"
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  4. #4
    Member chumstik's Avatar
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    Obviously things have reached a tipping point. Not just any one thing; more like death by a thousand paper cuts. Overharvest, overmanagement, politics and expediency taking precedent over sound science (both commercial and sport fishing), anthropogenic climate change screwing up ocean cycles, man's hubris in thinking that we can "manage" fish populations better than they've managed themselves for hundreds of thousands of years ... we're all to blame.

    The evisceration of salmon populations started in Northern California and the Pacific NW and B.C. a century ago; thanks to overpopulation, the destruction of watersheds, and dam building those once robust populations have all gone the way of the buffalo.

    Now its moved up to S.E. Alaska, Kodiak and Cook Inlet/Mat-Su. And just wait until the world's biggest gold mine is plopped down like a giant cancer cell at the headwaters of Bristol Bay. We'll reap what we sow there, all for a mine that will last maybe 40 years.

    It's easy to constantly point the finger at some other special interest group but we've all got a hand in this folks.

  5. #5
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I think we don't know anything about this years king run yet.... Except the kenai early run is off to a slow start.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  6. #6
    Member chumstik's Avatar
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    Maybe. But looking at the posts on this forum ... the last three years at least, they generally start out with "oh, it's just off to a slow start ..." -- then a month later everyone is a panic because the run never showed up.

    I'm not a biologist but it doesn't make any sense that the Kodiak king runs, Yukon king run, and Mat-Su King runs could all more or less collapse, while the Kenai runs stay robust. The habitat (fresh and saltwater) just isn't that segregated.

    Denial ain't a river in Egypt ...

  7. #7

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    In New Zealand the big russian factory boats fish the hell out of our waters.With the modern fish finding methods they use now and little respect for nature,Id bet that thousands of tons of your king salmon are ending up there!?

  8. #8

    Angry No Closed Season On Salt

    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi308 View Post
    In New Zealand the big russian factory boats fish the hell out of our waters.With the modern fish finding methods they use now and little respect for nature,Id bet that thousands of tons of your king salmon are ending up there!?
    Shhhhhhhhhsh.
    Someone's gonna dang you for profiling. But of course you are correct. It is not just the "russian" 's though. Japanese, Chinese, Korean and every other podunk country that has a boat that floats is out there, EVERY DAY!.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  9. #9
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Default

    ive talked to several people that seem to think its plain old overfishing. Im thinking thats probably pretty accurate. I dont think any of the "podunk" countries care about management or sustainable harvest. Get it while its there seems to be the motto.

    there are alot of mouths to feed on this planet now. And we are very efficient and catching fish. and the worlds population is supposed to double or something like that in the next 30 years. think how bad the fishing will be then!

    I was talking to a guy about how I heard the exxon spill was to blame for the herring dissapearing in the sound. He said, no, that was overfishing. He flew planes to spot the herring, and said how good the boats were at catching them. He doesnt belive for one bit that spill had anything to do with the herring die off.


    He had a good idea. Subsidize the fisherman to lay off for 5 years and see what happens with the runs then.

  10. #10
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    Some years back (mid '70's?) a fisheries person noticed that when the runs were good in AK they were poor in the NW. Same was true in reverse, good in the NW, poor in AK. There appeared to be a 30-year cycle.

    That led to the discovery of the PDO, Pacific Decadal Oscillation, which is shorthand for describing cooler or warmer water in the North Pacific. When it is warmer AK has good runs, and when it is cooler the NW has good runs and AK has poorer runs.

    All the other items and reasons cited may well have impacts, but the impact of the PDO would appear to be overwhelming as the correlations run back well over a century, which pretty much eliminates most of the other items cited here.

    Current predictions are for another 20 years of the PDO.

    Any fisheries guy want to comment?

  11. #11
    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    Default I vote....

    shut everything down now. It may not be popular, and many will say it's still early but it needs to happen. Save what we have left and hope things get better.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  12. #12
    Member Zinker's Avatar
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    Default Record run

    And Washington state is expecting a record return for Kings this year... But 3 or so years ago they shutdown all commercial fishing.


    Shut it down I can wait.

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    Shut it down in the salt and the rivers that are in trouble NOW. lets not close the gate after the horses have escaped.

  14. #14
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    Pacific Decadal Oscillation makes sense to explain a lot of the crazy weather, like the super cool "summer" in 2008... If it's PDO, however, why are the Copper River returns doing so well, this year? Shouldn't they be down with the other rivers' runs?

    I tend to think it's a combination of PDO, lack of herring, and pollock bycatch. The warming and acidification of the oceans ain't helping matters. Hate to think I'm going to have to move to Idaho or Washington to catch salmon...

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by pike_palace View Post
    shut everything down now. It may not be popular, and many will say it's still early but it needs to happen. Save what we have left and hope things get better.
    We could, or...

    How about no commercial fisheries until we hit 80% escapement, then, and only then, commercial Fisherman may fish but only Monday thru Thursday leaving sports and subsistance Friday, Saturday, and Sunday? If numbers are still low close Thursday and Friday down entirely!!

    IMO There are to many user groups and it seems to me the sports fisherman is the one that suffers due to the weakest lobbying strength. I don't doubt there are greater issues with the fishery as a whole (at sea and otherwise) but it chaps my rear knowing there are nets in Alaskas waters let alone in international waters and my family can't find any fish. How many on the board of fisheries is a prior commercial fisherman? Things just seem one sided in the fishing world..

    I've been on the Anchor all weekend (Friday afternoon through tomorrow) and have seen 4 fish caught the entire time here (fishing 2 hrs before and after low and high tide each day). In all the years I've fished Alaska I've never seen it this bad - IMO the season will soon be shut down... Hopefully that will include commercial, guides, and sportsman alike.
    "He should have been packing a more powerful gun...you have to be a very good shot or very lucky to stop a brown bear with a .357 Magnum." - Rick Sinnott, Alaska Department of Fish and Game biologist after a double attack by a grizzly.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanOutdoorsman View Post

    I've been on the Anchor all weekend (Friday afternoon through tomorrow) and have seen 4 fish caught the entire time here (fishing 2 hrs before and after low and high tide each day). In all the years I've fished Alaska I've never seen it this bad - IMO the season will soon be shut down... Hopefully that will include commercial, guides, and sportsman alike.
    While the numbers on the Anchor aren't very good they are tracking pretty much on par with 2008 which was worse than 2007 but much better than 2009. The big difference to me was that the river is 1-2 feet higher than usual. Where there used to be one place the kings could fish through is now a whole wide river where the fish can go through. This significantly reduces the chances to catch anything. Now add muddy water (at least for memorial weekend) and you got yourself a lot of people sitting in their chairs outside their RV's drinking beer.....

  17. #17
    Member chumstik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeak View Post
    you got yourself a lot of people sitting in their chairs outside their RV's drinking beer.....
    I think that's gonna be the case regardless of the sonar counts or the escapement numbers ...

  18. #18
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    Default Combination

    Everything cycles in nature and historically you will see the aforementioned trend. Normally in biological populations you will see more than one factor influencing a population and if it happens when the population is already stressed it has profound effects. Warming or cooling of the ocean by even 1 degree strongly affects the zooplankton followed by the phytoplankton and on up the food web. Imagine changing the temperature in your house by 20 degrees or more. High seas fishing, warmer than normal spawning streams, 100 year floods, and associated other factors combined with the subtle change in ocean temperature is a one, two knockout. No one individual special interest group is to blame. Conservation not preservation; everything cycles in nature.

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