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Thread: A Call To Lay Off The Kings

  1. #1

    Thumbs up A Call To Lay Off The Kings

    Wished the Saltwater and Flyfishers could see this too, but the breakout of the forum is lacking that ability. Anyway, upon seeing what is happening with the Kings in Cook Inlet, I think it is time EVERYONE to lay off the Kings, and I mean C&R and harvesting both, until such time that a given drainage has met is minimum escapement goal. Then get your meat. At this time they are in deep Kimshee and don't need to be messed with at all. Peer pressure should be brought to bear on those that selfishly refuse to do this. Are you with us or agin' us? I further suggest you get out there and target the predatory fish species, namely the Rainbows, Dollies and Pike. Or.....your thoughts?

    One edit: If you see a Hog Line forming as we have witnessed in the past, whereas a few greedy slobs are hemming in the few remaining spawners and stripping them out of the hole, take the time to photo them and post the pics, I am sure most potential fishers would want to know, who not to fish with.
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    I totally agree with you and I second the post in the Little Su thread that suggested all areas be closed to king fishing until all goals have been met. I know that will sadden many folks, but something has to be done and done soon!

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    would encourage all to contact the mat-su adf&g head biologist as well as our legislators.


    The targeting of the earliest of the early run kings has increased drastically the last 10-15 years in the mat-su and I suspect elsewhere. Seems likely that these earlies are some of the most important spawners. How is it that there are few to no restrictions on harvest of the earliest kings?

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    Member Rick P's Avatar
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    Haven't targeted Mat Su kings since the flood in 06, added the rest of the cook inlet last year. Glad too see a few others getting up to speed!
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    Default I agree

    I agree with laying off the kings. I won't be headed out for them until escapement is met across multiple drainages. I too have witnessed my share of greed on the river. Not too sure that I have seen it exclusively in a hog line though. If anything, I've seen the social pressure of the hog line stop unethical behavior. I've been in them on occasion and it wasn't my intent nor I'm pretty sure any of the others fishing in them to do as characterized in the above post. Still, I agree with the spirit implied. As benefactors, we need to take responsibility for our actions and how they effect the resource.

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    I'm going to let the BIO's be the BIO's and have them monitor/control it, NOT the LEGISLATORS - they are useless for this.

    Every year its the same doom and gloom posted on these forums in multiple threads about multiple rivers, and by alot of the same people and yet most of the runs materialize. If they don't then F/G will make the call to shut it down to help meet escapement.

    Those of you that think by laying off the fish until the escapement is met are not thinking big picture. Do that, and you might end up being way over and that’s a whole different problem now. The comm and sport fisherman are not catching every king out there, and the counters aren't seeing every fish either - its a delicate balance played out every year.

    So I'm going to go out and see if I can find a fish and maybe i'll keep it and maybe I won't, but I not so naive to think we as a human species are so effecient at catching kings (and other salmon) that we will get every last one of them.

    I applaud all the guys laying off the fish for thier own personal reasons, but I'm not believer when it come to ballot box biology, or a bunch of guys with made up names sitting around in thier skivvy's trying to get others organized to shut down a fishery. Especially when most have next to zero information about the overall run becuase they are looking at only the fish counts, or had a bad day of fishing and then crying doomsday scenario (yet again).

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by akduck View Post
    Not too sure that I have seen it exclusively in a hog line though. If anything, I've seen the social pressure of the hog line stop unethical behavior. I've been in them on occasion and it wasn't my intent nor I'm pretty sure any of the others fishing in them to do as characterized in the above post. Still, I agree with the spirit implied.
    Oh, I never meant to imply that the greed was "exclusively in a hog line". But speaking only from my personal observations, those that form the hog lines circling a small hole and stripping it clean or virtually blocking the entrance to a stream by forming a veritable guantlet, is a close to an Outdoors Gang Rape as I have seen. Just not at all what I envision as being sportsman like. I much prefer a one person-one hole method of fishing.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  8. #8

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    What is going on with the Kings state wide? Seems like the last 5 years have been nothing but a downhill spiral in several fisheries. Is it the lack of fish returning, predation in the ocean,commercial guys taking too much. Just seems like the resources is diminishing in rapid numbers and in short order.

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    Member Dupont Spinner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    What is going on with the Kings state wide? Seems like the last 5 years have been nothing but a downhill spiral in several fisheries. Is it the lack of fish returning, predation in the ocean,commercial guys taking too much. Just seems like the resources is diminishing in rapid numbers and in short order.
    All the above and you forgot to include environmental factors, like the above stated flood out of '06, which was not the only year on many of the Su valley streams, golbal warming. Also include bycatch and deep ocean predation is on the rise (every year more sharks are caught in Cook Inlet) IMO!!!!! I also believe this may be happening because PWS salmon returns are low.

    On Edit: Forgot to include the increase in the amount of seals that make their way upriver now and earlier in the season then ever before.

    I took my boat off the river for King season last year and painted, now have the sharpest '97 around, and have yet to even consider putting it in for Kings. Some thing to note is with the closure of the Deshka over the last years the pressure moved to other rivers (and I will use Lake Creek as my example) that are not monitored I am going to guess that the returns for those streams are going to be bleak for a few years to come. I may dip a line at Ship or Ekultna Tailrace for a King or 2 but no river fishing for me till after escapement and no annual pilgrimage to Lake Creek.

  10. #10
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    I'll only be fishing the Gulkana kings this year.

    There are a few floats I would love to do in the 1 man but I can't justify fishing kings in valley streams.
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  11. #11

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    The big problem is the Moose. The moose are steeping on them and killing them. See the problem started when Humans wanted all of the bears dead, which caused the moose population to explode, and now we see the un-intended impact on the salmon. We need to kill all of the moose ASAP, even use snares. If we can kill all of the Bears, Moose, Wolves, and anything else we choose to crudely manage, then we only have the over population of humans to deal with........ (Note: Intended as humor, with only a small amount of smart-Ase social satire.)

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    Won't be a problem on the Kenai.......

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    Default Kings and harvest mentalities

    I for one will be saddened to see F&G close all of Cook Inlet to sportsfishing for Kings this year but I would fully support it.

    The question is how do we make sure this is not the norm?

    One huge issue I see is over harvest and selfish motives of "sport fishermen". Why do guides and private anglers kill a huge percentage of the kings caught? Why is trophy fishing not promoted? I just fished 2 days in Florida--I killed nothing--I brought home no fish. Why does every angler coming to Alaska have to leave with 60lbs of fish? Why do the guides promote this?

    On another note. I live by Cheney Lake in Anchorage. The F&G spent a lot of time and money to eradicate the pike. The lake now is stocked with trout. Sounds good right? There are people trying to harvest every trout in that lake--they are like professionals. The lake is trashed--no place to take your kids anymore. Maybe someone will put some pike back in there?

    It's sad--I just don't get it.

  14. #14

    Default Lay off what kings?????

    Not that it matters if we lay off the kings really though I am all for it.....I took my son out over Memorial Day Weekend and didn't even see one roll on the Little Su. A couple were caught and cleaned (not by us, we didn't even get a nibble) on our second outing over the weekend (we camped) so I guess there are a few milling around. Closure will likely happen very soon if things don't change. I hope they do change and a slug of them show up.

    But, I am done going down there this year in target of kings as there are just not hardly any there. Sad too, as just a few short years ago there seemed to be one on every bend with excellent fishing. I have not completely written the run off yet, but so far it looks pretty bleak.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by KenaiV View Post

    It's sad--I just don't get it.

    I get it......We think Alaska can support unlimited Humans. But Alaska is a very fragile and complex system. We for sure will destroy Alaska, No not in my life time. But it has started, and it has more than started, and the nature of humans is greed. Kings will be "One every Four Years" with-in 25 years. Yes...It is sad, but, it is our nature.

  16. #16
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    Default This is a very interesting post

    Why the Moose Man? Why? Why? Why? Ok so it was funny.

    Interesting indeed from several points. We have opted not to guide again this year because of the change in policy on the Klutina i.e. opening later which in turn added additional pressure on the Gulkana early season. With a down turn of fish returns to begin with and the added pressure from additional guides from other systems there will be a similar closure IMO on the Gulkana. Hope I am wrong!!!

    Lots of factors I am sure that contribute just choosing not to an additional part of the decline at this point. Not a higher road just a choice. The same can be said about the Klutina with the extended season for the late run Kings. We as a sporting nation will need to potentially consider additional options to be able to maintain our fisheries.

    Politics and Money would a great cobmination

    Tight Lines All!

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    Member AK Wonderer's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about this. I say fish your heart out and if you're concerned about the fish counts then release your catch. Kings are a hearty fish and last I heard the mortality rate of a released fish is less than 10%. So the weekend angler who is lucky enough to land and release 10 kings a year will statistically kill one fish. So one private angler gets to fish 4, 5, 6 trips and kills or keeps one king. That's alot of fishing enjoyment for a very minor impact on the population.

    Now throw a few hundred guides on some of these rivers fishing 5-6 days per week, with three or four clients per day, fishing for 7-8 hours, and keeping 80% of the kings they catch. Definately a larger impact.

    Do you really think the private angler calling off their 4 hour Saturday outing is going to turn around the population decline? There are much larger forces at work than the private angler.

    Practice catch and release, try to limit your families kept kings to one and ask your freinds to do the same. But to stop fishing? Not me!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Wonderer View Post
    I have mixed feelings about this. I say fish your heart out and if you're concerned about the fish counts then release your catch. Kings are a hearty fish and last I heard the mortality rate of a released fish is less than 10%. So the weekend angler who is lucky enough to land and release 10 kings a year will statistically kill one fish. So one private angler gets to fish 4, 5, 6 trips and kills or keeps one king. That's alot of fishing enjoyment for a very minor impact on the population.

    Now throw a few hundred guides on some of these rivers fishing 5-6 days per week, with three or four clients per day, fishing for 7-8 hours, and keeping 80% of the kings they catch. Definately a larger impact.

    Do you really think the private angler calling off their 4 hour Saturday outing is going to turn around the population decline? There are much larger forces at work than the private angler.

    Practice catch and release, try to limit your families kept kings to one and ask your freinds to do the same. But to stop fishing? Not me!

    Ditto! Well said!
    "If your not the lead dog.... the view never changes"

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    I don't agree with bashing people for fishing or even keeping Kings. Taking pictures and harrassing law abiding fisherman by posting their pictures on a forum as suggested is stupid and down right rude. We are only allowed to keep 5 fish a year... just 5. Alot of people struggle and never fill that quota.
    A hog line is perfectly legal and yet you complain because their catching fish??? Isn't that the reason your on the river??? Are you one of the boats that slept in and wasn't able to tie up in that hog line and could only watch with a slack line others catch fish???
    Don't be so quik to judge other people just because they don't have the same thoughts or opinions as yourself yet they are following the letter of the law.
    If the state impliments a new law to curb the decline of fish then so be it but dont trash talk the people still fishing.
    If people want to help manage the river by not fishing kings and targeting predatory fish then good for you.

  20. #20
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    Default EO's are coming

    I'm hearing of some EO's that may be out before the weekend. I'm not sure if it's for the Kenai Pen. or somewhere else. Stay tuned.....
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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