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Thread: The little Sue is SLOW!!!

  1. #1
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    Default The little Sue is SLOW!!!

    Just got back from fishing the little sue, went down river and saw no hook ups, after fishing all morning on the way back I saw 1 jack caught on the bank, and 2 25 pounders at the boat launch. I heard some talk that they might shut her down... Good luck Fishing!!!

  2. #2
    Member sheep man's Avatar
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    Another vote for slow, 7 hrs of no-stop rowing produced 1 fish of about 18.lbs that was the 6th fish taken by 1;30 pm.....i hope dave rutz is watching....in my long history of fishing the little su and other susitna drainages its going to go down as the worst all time....mark my words if things don't change by this weekend someone better be thinking hard about pulling the plug..
    I ♥ Big Sheep

  3. #3
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    Hmm why must these runs suck so far?
    -Its better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
    -Put some excitment between your legs, ride a polaris!
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  4. #4
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default Hate to break it to you guys...

    In my unedumacated position but having lived here for 30 plus years, expect the Valley to go closed to all King fishing, in the very near future. I feel for all the people with $$ invested, for tourism, but that is the way it goes.
    Mark my words, We will be shut down and something needs to change. Whether it be pike, beavers, run-off or other factors, something big has to change before we see something become of this. Just shaking my head cause we are royally screwed, as it stands
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheep man View Post
    Another vote for slow, 7 hrs of no-stop rowing produced 1 fish of about 18.lbs that was the 6th fish taken by 1;30 pm.....i hope dave rutz is watching....in my long history of fishing the little su and other susitna drainages its going to go down as the worst all time....mark my words if things don't change by this weekend someone better be thinking hard about pulling the plug..
    This will be sentinel weekend for more than just the Little Su. Could be a LOT of plugs getting pulled.... and I ain't talkin' Mag Warts or Kwiks.

    The entire Cook Inlet management area is experiencing a basinwide chinook collapse.

    Paying for the sins of the past?
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    The KeenEye MD

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post

    Paying for the sins of the past?
    If not the sins, at the very least the apathy of the past.....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Member B&C 04's Avatar
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    I have been pondering a question that needs to be answered to satisfy my curiosity about our leaders of the state and their decision making agendas.
    If in fact we see an all-time low and collapse of the King fisheries in the valley and Kenai, what are the chances they will be closed immediately (and lose millions in state revenues) or remain open for a period of time to meet "their" revenue goals? IMO if their is a choice of saving the King fisheries or taking a hit on state revenue, I say verify the problem and shut'em down, don't wait around and see what happens...May be too late by then.

  8. #8
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    In a way we are just laying in the bed we have made for ourselves.... abusing the resource for maximum "sustainable" extraction. I guess we are finally finding out just how sustainable things are when they are managed in this manner.

    Seems like the "wait and see" approach is what's been in vogue the past few years of marginal runs. I don't think wait and see is gonna "gitter dun" this year.

    Another problem with such a widespread collapse of king stocks is that each system that managers decide to close will automatically cause the burgeoning angler demand to be displaced to what few systems remain open. It only perpetuates an exponential cascade of unsustainable exploitation on those streams that remain fishable.

    This is certainly NOT a place any of us (managers or users) wants to be.... now or in the future.

    This should be a wake-up call to more conservative management and better stewardship of our salmon resources from trib to mainstem to estuary to ocean.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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  9. #9

    Default It is slow everywhere......

    And I hope in the future that instead of managing Cook Inlet as a bunch of individual little systems, thus compartmentalizing everything into neat little boxes, it is managed as one big system of salmon. Certainly, that is exactly what it is. In the past the Kenai runs have remained strong. Thus, the keystone of the Inlet was ok and managers were reluctant to change much. Yet, with that the writing has been on the wall for a while, salmon stocks in many streams in CI have struggled for a number of reasons. And it has seemed like every year more and more streams are impacted. Now the Kenai has joined the group as struggling. Perhaps it is time to change management goals as Doc suggested? I don't know, it could be just a blip on the radar screen, or it could be that the fish really are in trouble. So do we wait and see and hope? Or do we shut it down knowing we did everything we could and then wait and see while praying things get better. Beats me.....But I know what I would do.

  10. #10

    Thumbs up

    Any fisherman worth his salt would be out targeting the predator fish species, especially the Rainbows and Dollies. They are rough on the smolt. So if you don't know what to do and still want to fish, hit 'em and hit 'em hard.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Paying for the sins of the past?
    Maybe I'm reading this wrong but to me this implies that something done in the past is to blame for the slow start/potentially poor runs we are seeing now. Looking at escapements from 2002-2007, it appears most goals were either exceeded or met. Is that the sin of the past we are paying for or is there some other Inlet wide/region wide sin that occurred?

    Just look at past emergency orders on when actions took place and what numbers were used in projections to get an idea of when F&G usually takes action. It's not rocket science to figure out they need some data to justify closures on runs with assessment projects and that prior to the quarter point of a run the projections are close to worthless.

  12. #12
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default Deja vu?

    Have a look here as we celebrate the 1-year anniversary of this forboding thread:

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...101#post509101

    Boots on the ground and boats on the water knew things were bad almost from the get-go, yet ADFG took the wait and see approach for the entire month of June. And here's the fallout from the wait-and-see strategy....

    At a time when sport fish harvest in these streams should be high, few fish were observed caught or hooked. Anglers have reported the fishing has never been this poor. On Friday, June 26, boat and foot surveys were conducted to count king salmon in traditional holding areas on these systems and few king salmon were observed during these surveys. On June 30, a helicopter survey was flown on Willow, Montana, and Sheep creeks and the Little Susitna River to count king salmon. The number of fish observed was far below expected numbers of fish required to meet escapement goals.


    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/EONR/...1118/year/2009
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    The KeenEye MD

  13. #13

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by commfish View Post
    It's not rocket science to figure out they need some data to justify closures on runs with assessment projects and that prior to the quarter point of a run the projections are close to worthless.
    Lots of Truth in that statement!!! By that time, the working stiffs have scheduled their vacations, everyone has bought their fishing licenses and king stamps, the stores have unloaded last years inventory, the cruise ships have arrived, the tourists have arrived and all is well in meeting the "assessment project" of maintaining the flow of $, so we can pass it around a few times, before the bankers get hold of it and ship it outside.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    In reviewing last year's Emergency Orders, here was this one for the Deshka:

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/EONR/...1090/year/2009

    They closed the river to all king fishing effective 6/13/09. That same date is merely 11 days from now and if you look at the count that prompted the closure we are lacking far behind this year.

  15. #15
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    Default commercial fishing

    Just curious...hate to throw would in the fire but.....how much does commercial fishing have to do with this shortage? Or the "great flood"

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    The real question is how much does pollock bycatch have to do with this problem? You know it is a major factor when the pollock industry funds a study up at UAF to find factors other than their own bycatch. Unfortunately this may be a case of "follow the money" and you will find a major source of the decline.
    http://www.sfos.uaf.edu/news/story/?ni=295
    http://www.sfos.uaf.edu/news/story/?ni=318

  17. #17
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default Irrelevant to the available fish right now....

    Quote Originally Posted by fishslayer View Post
    The real question is how much does pollock bycatch have to do with this problem? You know it is a major factor when the pollock industry funds a study up at UAF to find factors other than their own bycatch. Unfortunately this may be a case of "follow the money" and you will find a major source of the decline.
    http://www.sfos.uaf.edu/news/story/?ni=295
    http://www.sfos.uaf.edu/news/story/?ni=318
    Yeah, but the fish coming up the river right now, as we all hammer away at these keys, have already escaped the various commercial fisheries either targeting them outright or intercepting them as by-catch.

    What can we do in the here and now.... for the current crop of spawners.... to ensure enough of them make it to seed the gravel?

    Not saying by-catch isn't a hugely important issue that will need to be resolved eventually. Just that the by-catch damage for this years crop of Cook Inlet kings has already been done... there's nothing you can do to change that fact.

    But there's something proactive we can all do to make sure the remaining kings are put to their highest and best use.... procreation!
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by commfish View Post
    Looking at escapements from 2002-2007, it appears most goals were either exceeded or met.
    A few thoughts here:

    1) That example only goes up to 2007. The next two years, goal of 13000 have not been reached.

    2) Even if escapement numbers climb later in the run, do we really want managers waiting that long? Hard data is great if available, but there is no way to prove right now that the kings on Deshka (or wherever) won't return.

    3) I don't remember exactly, but weren't those banner Deshka years of 2002-2007 preceded by several years of no king fishing? I'm not saying that in-stream harvest is a cause of the current dilemma, but it seems that total closure is a management tool that may return to use.
    Jim Creek - Home of the burning car hook cast!

  19. #19

    Default Let's make it really simple....

    Due to the low numbers of fish, the king fishery needs to close again. We will try to figure out "why" later. If a ton of fish show up, open it up again. It isn't really that hard, I wonder what they are waiting for?

  20. #20

    Angry

    First person that posts a picture of a King with a hook in it's mouth, should be banned from the website for life. Then they should be openly chastised and rendered unsportsmanlike. The guys and gals out there targeting the Kings are the worst of the worst. They have no respect for the resource and will do anything to get their jollies.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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