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Thread: When is Hunting NOT really Hunting.........?

  1. #1

    Default When is Hunting NOT really Hunting.........?

    Where is the line for when one is hunting as opposed to simply assassinating an animal. There are lots of lines that could be drawn; However I am having a hard time accepting that the use of a remote camera and a router connected to a cell-phone and a satellite to your employment or home really classifies as hunting......maybe it is hunting, just not how we did it back in the 50's.

    In my years as a Guide we had a saying which we said to a hunter complaining of not seeing much game, "Hunting is Hunting". I understand that people are busy making a living, but to collapse the two enterprises into one, cheats both. If your working, work. If your hunting, hunt. But to sit at a computer watching bears come to your station, while entertaining it is neither hunting or working. Lets put the Hunting back into Hunting.

    End of rant......... (Note: I am NOT going to defend this thread, so flame if you want)

  2. #2

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    Perhaps it is an Urban Legend, but I have heard talk of one being able to sit at work on the company computer and by clicking the mouse, fire a remote mounted gun at deer in a feed plot, when you see on your monitor one that suits your fancy. The guide will then send you the "trophy" in the mail when it gets taxidermied up. Gotta change with the times....I guess.
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    Member B&C 04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Perhaps it is an Urban Legend, but I have heard talk of one being able to sit at work on the company computer and by clicking the mouse, fire a remote mounted gun at deer in a feed plot, when you see on your monitor one that suits your fancy. The guide will then send you the "trophy" in the mail when it gets taxidermied up. Gotta change with the times....I guess.
    Absolutly true!! I think the operation was or is out of Texas. As far as the orginal question, I think the answer is in the eye of the beholder or hunter if you will. My father gives me s*** everytime I show up with camo on for a deer/elk hunt, stating the ol' "50 yrs ago there was no camo" and the deer they harvested where all 30" ers. Do we NEED camo, binos, rangfinders, spotting scopes and game cameras ect.? Maybe not, but if you want to stake the odds in your favor you may elect to use any means possible...I think it all boils down to personal wants and over all goals for each individual..

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    Member Mountain Man Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    computer and by clicking the mouse, fire a remote mounted gun at deer in a feed plot, when you see on your monitor one that suits your fancy.
    Sounds like the Cabelas big game hunter video game. What a joke. That's not a trophy. It seems this so called "hunting" would not yield any personal significance to the hunt or the animal at all.
    There is definitely a difference between hunting and merely harvesting.

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    The remote camera, gun operation was intended for disabled hunters who would never be able to amek it back out in the field again, or at least that was what the statements read. It has since disappeared, as it should have.
    Now having a camera with a router where you could watch your bait from home may be something different. Is it hunting? No. There's no remote gun. What is the big difference between that and having a trail camera at the bait, exceept of course, time and ease of seeing what is happening. You'll still have to actually go out there and "hunt". I'm just throwing this out there, I've never done it and probably would never but if the wrong set of circumstances happened and I could pattern a bear from watching video from home, maybe I would be tempted. Bit I wouold still go out there and sit on the stand and home things work out. Hunting is not hunting when there is no chance of fair cdhase as in fenced hunts in small enclosures. The 50,000 acre South African hunts, may be fair, at least you can just walk up and shot the animal.

  6. #6

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    Is that different then going to a game ranch where the guide opens the cage 30 feet from you as you shoot your animal?

    There are all kinds of canned hunts. I guess if a guy pays thousands for "trophy" animal, then he will get it regardless of the "fairness" involved.
    “You touch my junk, I'm going to have you arrested.” - Groping objector

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    Member AK DUX's Avatar
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    Ditto....canned shoots aren't really hunting. Hunting involves seeking, finding, tracking, etc., with the last phases being shooting and recovering. If it's not fair chase...it's not hunting.
    "We're all here cuz we're not all there"

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I like the critter to see who shot him and I like to get close. Often when I get real close I'll watch for awhile and then yell to spook the heck out of it. When in Texas I harvested deer 90% of the time but did hunt them some. I have harvested black bear from a stand with bait and also hunted them.. Each has their way of doing things and most all are legal and thats what counts. Myself I refuse to play mother nature and be a lighting bolt from no where.

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Do any of you guys consider shooting blackies on bait "hunting"?
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    To each his own. I'll be quick to admit that I'll shoot a bison in a fenced enclosure and take home the meat. Definately not a hunt in my mind, but everybody has their own standards. I enjoy the task of harvesting the animal myself, but I would much rather have to earn it than pay for it.

    As far as electronics go, that's just laziness. You can't help that in this day and age. It seems like a lot of people will utilize whatever means to gain the edge to be successful. Some people are satisified with just the experience regardless if they take an animal or not, but more and more people want to do whatever it takes to get that money shot. I'm happy that I'm successful enough that I don't mind the occasional tag soup. It wouldn't be much fun to me if it was always guaranteed.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Do any of you guys consider shooting blackies on bait "hunting"?
    No. I can only speak to my area though, where a guy has plenty of opportunity to hunt/kill a bear using non-baiting methods.

    I am really opposed to baiting black bears, because it screws fair chase hunters out of opportunity. Instead of being on beaches or on mountain slopes eating grass where fair chase hunters would be looking for them, they are tipping over a barrel eating donuts in some obscure corner of the woods.

  12. #12

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    I think you still have to know where to put a camera(unless it is over bait) and know how to not taint an area with your scent or presence going in and out. Then seeing it on camera and actually shooting during legal season are no give me. I think it helps you learn or gives you the drive to hold out for that mature trophy rather than shooting a younger trophy
    I will have to say some of that info could be had with more time in the field, but not all of it. In the old days I think there was way fewer hunters and way more undisturbed habitat. Many of the old timers I knew really didn't give big trophies much thought. I mean it was more about putting food on the table and just being outdoors.

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    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Do any of you guys consider shooting blackies on bait "hunting"?
    Yes.

    I will say that the kill is somewhat anticlimactic because baiting differ's from other methods in that it's sort of a front loaded investment. You do a gob o' work first in the expectation of enticing bears to frequent a particular spot then, if one meets your standard, you kill it.

    I used to think baiting was easy until I tried my hand at it. A few personal lessons:
    Some places won't draw bears no matter how delectable the bait.
    Bears, at least the bigger boars, don't just come in and wait to be shot. Many of them are bait-smart and will wait for the hunter to leave.

    I like baiting because it gives me opportunites to watch bears close up and, even though this point has come up in the past, it allows me (and other hunters) to selectively take mature boars. Granted, several flop-eared 3 year olds are taken every year, but generally the bear hunter is after mature boars.

    As to the OP, there will always be a market for shortcuts. Basic. Human. Nature.
    If cave men had been trophy hunters the Wooly Mammoth would be alive today

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Do any of you guys consider shooting blackies on bait "hunting"?
    Absolutely. putting out bait does not guarantee you will get a bear. Most hunters who bait do a considerable amount of preseason scouting. In many areas baiting is the only way that will give a hunter a reasonable shot at a bear. Much of 16B is so alder choked spot & stalk is not a really viable option. I have 4 stations registered and baited for a week so far no action on any of them and I'm in prime black bear habitat. Everyone has their preference which is usually what works best where they hunt. When I guide on the gulf all of my black bears are spot & stalk. When I hunt for myself here at home in 16 I bait.
    Chuck

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    Member trapperbob's Avatar
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    Default Phishing

    More Phishing guys don't bite, and that coming from someone who has never baited a bear. Let the hunters hunt in their own way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Where is the line for when one is hunting as opposed to simply assassinating an animal. There are lots of lines that could be drawn; However I am having a hard time accepting that the use of a remote camera and a router connected to a cell-phone and a satellite to your employment or home really classifies as hunting......maybe it is hunting, just not how we did it back in the 50's.

    In my years as a Guide we had a saying which we said to a hunter complaining of not seeing much game, "Hunting is Hunting". I understand that people are busy making a living, but to collapse the two enterprises into one, cheats both. If your working, work. If your hunting, hunt. But to sit at a computer watching bears come to your station, while entertaining it is neither hunting or working. Lets put the Hunting back into Hunting.

    End of rant......... (Note: I am NOT going to defend this thread, so flame if you want)
    The use of such gadgets is still "hunting," or simply a progression from the times when we used a spear, or a club to hunt. Back then we ran butt-naked after game, no underwear, not "scent-lock" garments, no boots with Vibrant soles, no insulated gear, no sleeping bag, no Wall Tent, cot, and propane, no tent heater, no ATV, no backpack, and so forth. We would be drinking unfiltered water from a puddle in the trail.... But I am certain that a cave-man would say, of the first cave-man who used a gun to hunt, that it isn't hunting, but assassinating game when a gun is used

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfromAK View Post
    The use of such gadgets is still "hunting," or simply a progression from the times when we used a spear, or a club to hunt. Back then we ran butt-naked after game, no underwear, not "scent-lock" garments, no boots with Vibrant soles, no insulated gear, no sleeping bag, no Wall Tent, cot, and propane, no tent heater, no ATV, no backpack, and so forth. We would be drinking unfiltered water from a puddle in the trail.... But I am certain that a cave-man would say, of the first cave-man who used a gun to hunt, that it isn't hunting, but assassinating game when a gun is used
    Yup,
    We are rapidly becoming a Digitized Society. Phones, cams, , gps, cameras, toys and tools, even our meauring tapes. We can honestly say we have abandoned our old ways and have embraced the new era of hunting and living.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    I read somewhere it wasnt really "Hunting" when you use a gun, 'cause its not traditional.........
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapperbob View Post
    More Phishing guys don't bite...
    Thanks again for flaking out last year. Great job of backing up your ideas with action, well, not really!

    The question was sincere. All this talk of fair chase piqued my interest as I don't recall donuts and chinese fryer grease being discussed in the fair chase threads in the past.

    It's legal so I don't really give a poop. I'd rather see someone sitting over dog food and bacon grease than come over a ridge to find a brownie strapped to a tree.

    I don't really see the "chase" part of sitting in a tree acting like one of APD's finest (donuts and all), but that's just me.
    ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·..¸¸ ><((((º>`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>

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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  20. #20
    Supporting Member sigabrt's Avatar
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    Default The old ways...

    To quote a learned hunter of days gone by:
    "The old ways are the good ways"

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