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Thread: Don't know what's causin' 'bou decline, just kill the wolves....

  1. #1
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    Default Don't know what's causin' 'bou decline, just kill the wolves....

    So says Denby Lloyd:

    http://www.adn.com/2010/05/20/128772...ents_Container

    Pretty sad...

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I don't know, goalie...seems like a pretty wise move at this point. If there were ever a time for a state-run predator control campaign, this sounds like it. You state that they don't know the cause of the decline, but the article also states this:

    Ninty-nine percent of the calves perish before they reach 1 month, Butler said. And there are only five bulls for every 100 cows, many of them older animals.
    If 99% of calves are dying within a month of birth and the herd is losing 20% per year - down to 400 animals - well, time to do further studies is just not on our side. You know that I am not one to blindly support any and all predator control plans, but this one looks pretty justified on the surface. Knowing as much as possible before deciding on a course of action is ideal, but when a population reaches a critical point, sometimes the luxury of time is not there. It's just too bad that they didn't do this in winter when the hides could be sold.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    This was one issue of that last day of the BOG... i did get to sit and talk with one of the federal land managers ( don't recall name) and discuss this issue with him and the type of permit needed to be done... what i gathered from that conversation and meeting of the BOG was that both state and fed agreed that something was in dire need of being done and the wolf control was not a real issues with the feds.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Default Brian...

    what's gunna happen if they kill the amount of wolves they want to & the herd STILL declines?

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    Wow!

    ................. and they dont know whats causing the decline?

    Wellllllllll........It is an Island....

    With 20 males and 4 kids.......and 376 Females..........go figure........

    My honest opinion?

    And the Wolves have evolved, by Law, from Subsistance Hunters into Sport Hunters, who only kill the biggest and best Bulls, and with sex starved Cows are running about inbreeding, the kids are to stupid to run away from the Wolves, who now hunt them for the tender veal that their enlightend palates have developed a more civilized taste for.......as well , with all that mortality, the nervous smoking of ciggeretts could be taking its toll as well, especcially since the campaighn against tobacco was a successfull Fed internal op directed at Wolves to quit, and therefore instigate this situation......

    Nature gone to ****........again.........

    And what did the old Bull say to the Young Bull, on the hill above the herd of Cows??? Was it something like, "Lets walk down there and....."
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie View Post
    what's gunna happen if they kill the amount of wolves they want to & the herd STILL declines?
    Well...then the caribou will die out, I suppose. If it can't be prevented, then that's a shame...but a greater shame would be not trying to do anything at all.

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    What better place to study results than an island......go for it!

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    Hardly worth taking the time for comment.....but, isn't the current critical situation a direct result of this kind of Anti-thinking in the first place? Why do our Wildlife Managers put up with the nonsensical bashing, until it becomes critical? The wolves should have been taken out a LONG time ago. Try to remember GG, we are doing this for the Kids.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    the residents of False Pass, being extremely concerned about the health of their caribou, have had all the past winter (as well as previous winters) to make some effort towards reducing wolf populations. It's been an ongoing trend for the past decade. Why the *bleep* haven't they taken some action on their own?


    The hunters in the community should be ashamed that their local ungulates need predator control welfare due to years of inadequate action on their part.


    And adfg should absolutely step in as they are doing, it is sad that the department is now forced to spend a lot of money to prevent further decline because the local shepherds are in deriliction of duty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADN article
    Fish and Wildlife has conducted several predator control programs to protect and enhance bird populations in recent years, including a $3 million effort to poison the rats that overran Rat Island
    I thought this was hilarious! I nearly choked!

    Hopefully this new initiative works although it seems like something else might be chipping away at this herd. Could they not transport in some bulls or something?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I think its the pipeline and we should just do away with it

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    Its about time. I too wonder why the locals aren't shooting and trapping a few wolves every winter? As to what the F&G will do if the 'bou keep declining; the article also states that they plan to import 'bou from the mainland. And, as the feds are already spending millions to restore bird habitat in the Aleutians, money shouldn't be an issue. Isn't a major food source for humans at least as important as some birds that just get watched on National Geographic?

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    Default Two things...

    WP4F...if they don't know what's causin' the decline, & then they kill wolves, & bring in some transplants, yer just feedin' a meat grinder...

    Find out first, what's causin' the decline (should done this YEARS ago!), find & work any solutions into the issue, such as reduction of preds, & bringing in some transplants...

    But no, any & all science is OUT the window...band aid fixes for the Hockey Mom crowd...

  14. #14
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Marvin - This situation makes me think of my sister's experience with cancer. I admit the analogy is a bit of a stretch, but bear with me. When my sister's cancer was diagnosed, it was already in an advanced state. It should have been diagnosed much earlier - she had detected the lump early in her pregnancy, but the doctors kept telling her it was nothing to be concerned about. It was probably just a clogged mammary gland, they said, and she should just rub it vigorously. Flash forward to two months after the birth of her daughter, and the bad news became apparent. Not only was it cancer, but the time where treatment could be taken in small, measured steps was past. There was no time to run tests and tinker with treatment to get it just right - the cancer needed to be fought aggressively with every tool at their disposal. She was forced to stop breast feeding that night, and by 7am the next morning she was on two types of chemo and beginning radiation. Surgery was next, followed by four different types of chemo, more radiation, and a clinical trial where she was given an experimental angiogenic inhibitor.

    It would have been awesome if the decline of this caribou herd had been thoroughly studied in years past. Ideally that would have led to solid knowledge of the cause of the decline, and would have allowed the managers to take prudent, measured steps to stem the decline. Much like my sister's missed diagnosis, though, that didn't happen. Now the herd is in a very dangerous position, with 99% of calves not surviving the first month and a low number of bulls to breed the remaining cows. Something must be done now. Hindsight is great and can inform our actions in the future, but right now that does us no good.

    You know that I am a firm supporter of science-based management and that I am usually skeptical of predator control proposals. If there were ever a time for state-sponsored predator control, though, this is the time. If the caribou end up dying off anyway, well...nothing was lost. If they rebound, though, I will be thankful that action was taken. In my sister's case, aggressive action led to her survival, and right now she is able to enjoy raising her three kids. Unfortunately, two of her close friends that she met through cancer support groups weren't as fortunate, and they passed away within a year of being diagnosed. Since they died anyway, was it a poor decision to treat their cancer aggressively? I would say no. I would say the same in the case of a herd in such dire circumstances as these caribou are in.

    Again, a bit of a stretch...but it's where my mind went.

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    Default 99%

    come on guys, 99% of the calves dont make it past one month and you wonder why the herd is in decline!! There is a group of independent biologists making news down here on wildlife management and hunting. Their take on how hunting effects wildlife populations is somewhat different than our govt biologists. They sent one of their biologists up for our last wildlife management board meeting. I wasnt there but will get the info they provided soon. It has a lot of outdoors men here talking anyway.

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    Thumbs up

    IMO, it makes sense to me, given what history of the caribou/wolves was in the article.

    What makes sense is,

    shooting wolves in the caribou calving grounds, and at the time the caribou are calving.
    I think the reason the wolves go to calving areas during calving time,,, is to eat the newborns, or mama and the 'close' to being a newborn.

    I can't think of any other rational reason for the wolves to be there, seems to be a common occurrence with most Caribou herds in Alaska.

  17. #17
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    As always, humanity blaming everything but themselves..The stewards of our environment.. Bhahahahha!! Control is an illusion – all there is, SIMPLY, is cause and reaction.. Find the true cause and manipulate the reaction by causation.. Yep, **** it! The last place on earth controlled by natural dictation should be removed.. Gun the wolves down and snare the hell out of the bears..C’mon I can’t wait to live in a human dominated environment controlled by human “control,” 100 years and all will be done and destroyed. The F—k—stewards of the last frontier..Kudos to you and you repetitive resolutions.. Originality is most certainly lost.. Brian, if you’d throw me off you would be doing me a great favor..
    Killing the wolves is the only thing that makes sense so do it..**** cowards!! Adios..

    Quote Originally Posted by DEDWUF View Post
    IMO, it makes sense to me, given what history of the caribou/wolves was in the article.

    What makes sense is,

    shooting wolves in the caribou calving grounds, and at the time the caribou are calving.
    I think the reason the wolves go to calving areas during calving time,,, is to eat the newborns, or mama and the 'close' to being a newborn.

    I can't think of any other rational reason for the wolves to be there, seems to be a common occurrence with most Caribou herds in Alaska.

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    Exclamation

    wolfwatcing, don't let game management bring ya down.

    It will be a moot point when the sun burns out................

  19. #19
    wolfwatching
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    I'd give you rep but I cant till I spread it "around." Shoot..poeple cant even manage their own population so how the heck can they manage something they dont even understand??
    Quote Originally Posted by DEDWUF View Post
    wolfwatcing, don't let game management bring ya down.

    It will be a moot point when the sun burns out................

  20. #20
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    So instead of trying to “control” the wildlife why DON’T people focus on controlling US and our impact cause, as the entire natural world is my witness, the only thing we do is create a giant mess. Check out this link.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch; ever heard of the Pacific Gyre?? I didn’t until recently.. Yes, than we can complain about the wolves and the bears and wonder why oh why the caribou have been decimated.. I could send you other links more local but..that would be too surreal.. Good luck folks but talk about the wrong tree..

    Quote Originally Posted by DEDWUF View Post
    wolfwatcing, don't let game management bring ya down.

    It will be a moot point when the sun burns out................

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