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Thread: Alexander Pike Update

  1. #1
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    Default Alexander Pike Update

    I just thought I'd post an update to those that didn't feel that our efforts would make a difference...

    My partner and I have caught approximately 400+ fish (I left the forms at camp and I'm at home, ready to head back out) in a week. The ADF&G guys have caught that many and more in their area above Sucker Creek; we have the sloughs below Sucker Creek.

    The permanent residents there have been very receptive and giving of their time for this project. They have expressed gratitude and optimism and their support has been greatly appreciated. The big news?.... last year's efforts yielded some preliminary results of more fish in the river than expected.

    __________________________________________________ ___________
    -from a resident at Alexander Creek, "We've not caught that many rainbows in years. Last October was phenomenal fishing and we didn't see a single pike."

    ------------- also -------------

    "The effort to cull the bears was really great of you guys {(SFW) and the ADF&G initiative for predator control in 16B}, everyone got their moose last year and that hasn't been done for a long time.
    __________________________________________________ ___________

    As you can see, straight from the local residents that predator management is effective. The pike reduction efforts are effective. There is a multi-year plan in effect to further reduce the invasive species in this drainage and we (Sportsman for Fish & Wildlife) are please to not only be a part of the effort but to also become a part of community that has been decimated with loss of revenues at their lodges. The important part of management for abundance to keep the focus on the balance of the ecology. I, for one, am proud to be a part of this program and look forward to further projects.

    I would like to be the first to openly call out our fishing and hunting community to stop the belittling and criticism of our ADF&G and offer more support. Through volunteer efforts and community actions/support we can further our successes with the management for abundance goals we now have in place. The time to start supporting and offering a helping hand is here, combined efforts WILL bring back our stocks and game populations.

    As a side note and closing; I have sincerely enjoyed the company and residents of Alexander Creek. I have traveled to virtually all of the corners of this state and this is truly a little pocket of heaven.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

  2. #2
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    not to be a pessimist but last year was the big SFW push, the only new moose from those efforts would be yearlings. As far as new fish in the river I can't see how after one season of "pike control" there would be a huge increase in the catchable fish either. I would expect it to increase the overall number but would expect that increase to be primarily in the juvenile population. Not to downplay the efforts as they are commendable but in reading this I can't help but picture George W. standing on a carrier deck declaring "Mission Accomplished".

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    The rainbow fishing increases because they migrate from the lake and mainstem. They don't reside in Alexander Cr. during the winter.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Good work, Rob. Keep it up! Anecdotals aside, it can't help but help out. Keep pounding piscine and ursine predators, and the prey can't help but grow in number.

  5. #5

    Question

    Are you using Gill Nets? If so, what size openings and what has been the Incidental Catches of Rainbows, Grayling and Salmon? Very curious about your methods, as it sounds pretty intense.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Are you using Gill Nets? If so, what size openings and what has been the Incidental Catches of Rainbows, Grayling and Salmon? Very curious about your methods, as it sounds pretty intense.
    Make that two people. How did you get your 400 and what day is the fish fry?

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    Default Issue at hand

    The issue is not how many one has caught but what exploitation rate are you putting on the population? If you are only catching a small fraction of what is there then this is not meaningful.

    Second, ADF&G needs to get off its tail and start to think of how to deal with over 120 lakes with pike. They are not putting the resources necessary to do the job and they have submitted no budget of significance to do a decent job.

    Sorry but until I see a meaningful program I am going to continue to pressure ADF&G to take a significant action on pike in the Susitna and elsewhere.

  8. #8
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    The problem is a lack of money.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    A couple of years ago ADFG's district manager proclaimed the king salmon population crash in Alexander Creek was a pike problem, period. Northern District commercial fishing remained open. He said commercial catch was a non-issue. Alexander had a pike problem, period. Did the pike spread to the Chuit, Theodore, and Lewis? Why are those neighbors of Alexander Creek closed along with the Northern District commercial season? Pike?

    How does the pike population differ now from 10, 20, 30 years ago?

    Biologists generally agree that a body of water can support a certain number of pounds of a species that resides there. A lot of little fish or fewer big fish, but the biomass potential is fixed. What happens when you kill a portion of a population, but not all? The lack of competition among that species may prompt a breeding boom. Is anyone studying that?

  10. #10
    hap
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishGod View Post
    The rainbow fishing increases because they migrate from the lake and mainstem. They don't reside in Alexander Cr. during the winter.
    I can assure you virtually no rainbows spend any time in Alexander Lake. It would take a serious trout to survive the pike...

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    the problem is not a lack of money. our state has billions in the bank.

    Certain fish and wildlife and Alaska outdoor advocacy groups spend most of their time crying wolf (or pike?) in more ways than one. Or maybe howling at the moon?

    BC Robb- If you go looking for something you're bound to find it. Keep patting yourself on the back. May I also recommend that you take off your blinders?

  12. #12

    Wink Alexander Pike Hit hard

    So far more than 4000 pike have been caught in nets by ADFG and SFW Volunteers. Last year more than 2000 where caught. This is the first time that a sports fishing group has help in a project such as this.


    Big Fisherman

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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    the problem is not a lack of money. our state has billions in the bank.
    You are correct. The state has money, but ADF&G Sportfish Division does not. I'm not just talking about Alexander Lake, but all the other lakes and systems that have been affected by pike predation. Biologist, technicians, Rotenone etc. all cost money and Sportfish Division keeps getting their budgets cut. Anchorage ADF&G only has one person for invasive species. I know the money is out there, just not in the right place.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    I can assure you virtually no rainbows spend any time in Alexander Lake. It would take a serious trout to survive the pike...
    I agree with you 100%. The point I was trying to make though, was that the rainbows don't rear in the Alexander system their whole lives. As everyone knows from the telemetry studies, the rainbows reside in the big rivers like the Big Sue, Talkeetna etc. during the winter. The Kashwitna is an exception.
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

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    so what issues are the dominant fishing and hunting groups advocating for? sure doesn't seem like increased funding or habitat protection measures have been at the top of the list.

    It's pretty clear to me that more than a couple of legislators are beholden to some of these groups agendas and yet most of what I hear from these groups is fairly empty rhetoric and a lot of encouraging "sportsmen" to pat themselves on the back. So our legislature has for years ignored the pressing issues allowing bad habits to become entrenched.

    Some are contented to kill pike, wolves and bears and hope that they will thereby be able to avoid addressing systematic problems with excessive human development, overharvest of vulnerable populations and substantial habitat encroachment, some of the root causes of the decreasing quality of our harvest opportunities. Pretending that we can kill Pike while ignoring larger problems is short-sighted.

    BC Robb: maybe change the name to SSSFW?

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    I do not mean to piss all over the pike killing parade. It frustrates me that we are at this stage only now.

    But we are foolish in the Mat-Su to not acknowledge that we have bigger problems, and many of them are human caused issues. We can pretend that we do not see what's coming but we cannot stop it if we don't acknowledge that killing of predators is not the key to halting the decreasing quality of opportunity that we have.


    The elder statesman of mat-su angling and hunting have their heads in the sand. We are our own worst enemy if we do not address the habitat fragmentation, especially along riparian corridors, and also address the overcrowding due to ease of access.

    Kill on with the pike, but quit acting like you've found the silver bullet. You're ignoring the giant elephants and you ought to know it and recognize it.

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    Default Strong words my friend....

    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    the problem is not a lack of money. our state has billions in the bank.

    Certain fish and wildlife and Alaska outdoor advocacy groups spend most of their time crying wolf (or pike?) in more ways than one. Or maybe howling at the moon?

    BC Robb- If you go looking for something you're bound to find it. Keep patting yourself on the back. May I also recommend that you take off your blinders?
    I'm a bit surprised that you have the audacity to make such a jab. You were not there and were not catching the fish and you were not there taking measurements and checking stomach contents. YOU are one of the many that were not there. So until you have the sack to come out and roll up your sleeves about conservation and preservations issues; I would suggest that you keep your infantile jabs to yourself. Once you get involved I am happy to take any jab you may throw.

    The anonymity of the internet provides a great mask to hide behind, I am happy to engage intelligent conversation in person anytime you would like to choose a public meeting place.

    __________________________________________________ _______________


    For those that have the other questions:

    The by-catch was very minimal. The tactics used was multi-panel (varying sized mesh) gill netting at targeted sloughs with proven pike populations. I personally released many Burbot that were larger than footballs that swam away, A handful of Grayling and Whitefish.

    The comment about the trout living in the lake is not that far fetched. They have separate habitat within each ecosystem; pike are ambush eaters that hide in thick grasses/weeds and lily's. Trout are deeper swimmers and are very susceptible to being eaten during their spawning season when they putz around shallower water looking for stream outlets.

    I am still confounded by the resistant nature of the comments here. SOMETHING IS BEING DONE. Efforts are being made and that anyone would negate them is really odd to me. I'm not discouraged and will continue my own efforts; I will not be moved in my perspective and ambition -

    SFW's efforts with the bear population around there are recognized and the results speak for them selves - you can't tell me that balancing the predator/prey scale does not have instant results. Prey that does not have a wall of predators preventing them from browse is going to move back into areas previously populated with things that would eat them.

    __________________________________________________ ______________


    I'm glad for this forum and I expected the rock-throwing and negative jabs. I took a hiatus from this forum because it was full of negative minded individuals that had nothing better to share than their foulness. I sincerely believe that the best contributions from human beings come from compassion and conviction; contributions to conversation or projects that stem from a pessimistic perspective rarely yield any results worth mentioning.

    Fact is that this year the catch rates were below last year's effort. That should clearly tell everyone that with the multi-year initiative and continuing effort that population can be brought back to a tolerable/manageable level and allow for other species to proliferate again in the drainage.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

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    Default The reason why

    I'm not alone in my disdain for the black-clouded comments made by those in this forum. I can understand the pessimistic view of some but to reduce the conversation to personal, targeted jabs; is really quite juvenile.

    THIS is the reason that your Alaska Department of Fish and Game are resistant to the input of user groups.

    Let me make this clear so that I don't cloud the explanation:

    IF you worked hard at your job and followed your budgetary limits as well as your marching orders; and all you received was criticism, threatening emails and beratement, how would you feel about engaging your customers? What if they came up to your face and started telling you how to do your job when you have graduated from a college with a bachelor's to learn how to do it and they did not?
    - you wouldn't feel good about it all.


    So I ask with sincerity and plead my case; can we please focus on the issues and leave the personal insults and rock-throwing out of the discussions? The information gathering is a bit difficult to assemble sometimes, so the polite thing to do is ASK nicely for the details from people that you converse with/to.
    "He who is slow to anger is better than the mighty, and he who rules his spirit is better than he who takes a city." ~ Proverbs 16:32

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    Robb,

    No disrespect intended, but your posts are filled with emotional rhetoric and anecdotes. Little if any objective information has been offered. If you want to engage in a detailed and intelligent conversation please start one. It's your thread. Some excellent questions have been asked and points made that oppose your view of your own efforts. I'd like to hear your responses to those points.

  20. #20
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    Default Good Job Robb, a positive thing to hear....

    Robb~

    Sounds like a great step forward. At least something is being done. Im betting its interesting wondering what youll find in the traps. Sounds like something id enjoy doing.



    Release Lake Trout

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