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Thread: Non-Res Cow Tags

  1. #1
    Member germe1967's Avatar
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    Angry Non-Res Cow Tags

    Hey! I was a little taken aback when I looked at the list for drawing results for cow tags.... I did not get one and I saw the names of at least 3 individuals who did get a cow tag that live OUTSIDE THE STATE OF ALASKA!!! Hey folks, if you don't live here and want to hunt big, trophy bulls, more power to you! But I am a firm believer that game management hunts for cows which, let's face it, are almost 100% motivated by getting meat, should be reserved for Alaska residents trying to feed our kids!
    I know this thread is the practical equivelent of urinating into the wind, but I'm sure it'll be read a couple times more than if I wrote it directly to ADF&G.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Default

    Yep, rural over urban also

  3. #3

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    Just because a hunter is non-resident doesn't mean he doesn't want to feed a family. There are lots of scenarios where a non-res may be hunting for locals. The last bull I took I shipped all the meat home with me. I think your concerns are best addressed to the BOG.

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    Premium Member Wyo2AK's Avatar
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    Last I checked, life still isn't fair.

    As 257 said, could be several scenarios...

    maybe the NRs are friends or family of folks who do live in Alaska and they're planning on leaving the meat with relatives here. Could be a way to increase their odds of getting meat in the freezer by having a few more names in the hat.

    maybe the NRs are family or friends just looking for a nice hunt/excuse to come up to Alaska and go hunting with Pops or Uncle Fred.

    maybe the NRs just have some friends up here who were considerate enough to offer "hey... if you can draw a cow moose tag one of these years you're welcome to come up and hunt on my land."

    maybe someone figures it could be a good way to get introduced to hunting in AK on their own - relatively easy access, no guide required, and a bunch of delicious meat if successful. They could be retired and have all month off to hunt and plenty of time to drive the meat back on the Alcan... what an adventure!
    Pursue happiness with diligence.

  5. #5
    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that your residency status has nothing to do with where you get your mail. The ones you see might be residents but there may be others using Alaska addresses that are non-resident. There are plenty of non-residents that draw tags every year using Alaska mailing addresses.

    If you disagree with the current regs, submit a proposal to change it and keep submitting it every time if comes up.

  6. #6
    Member skagdog's Avatar
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    Default maybe

    Could it also be that someone recently moved up here and had not yet established residency in AK?

    They could have put in for whatever tags they could in hopes that after moving up here they could get some meat for their recently relocated relatives.

    Keep on trying for tags, it took me 5 years before I finally got one, and I know there are many who've waited much longer than that!

    One good thing about AK is that you don't need a draw permit to get a moose. In some instances it gives you a more viable option but it is hardly an absolute requirement.
    Last edited by skagdog; 05-19-2010 at 14:14. Reason: wanted to say it's great that we don't need a draw permit to hunt big game.

  7. #7
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Could be a military kid who is stationed out of state but comes up and hunts with his family. Lots of possibilities!

  8. #8
    Member germe1967's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Suddenly realized why I didn't post my irritation earlier. Not that any of you are wrong.

  9. #9
    Member Milo's Avatar
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    Didn't say you were wrong either - just have to be willing to fight the battle if you want to change it.

  10. #10

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    What an unbelievable sense of entitlement the first post here expresses. If those tags are on Federal land - Alaskans should have no advantage over any US citizen at drawing the tags. State or private land is a different matter. AK should manage them however they want, including excluding all nonresidents if they choose. If people can't feed their families taking their fair share of wild game, they need to rethink the lifestyle they have chosen. The rest of the hunters/taxpayers in this country paid for that land and we are under no obligation to feed your families.

    Alaska, like all states, is granted the privilege of managing federal property - there are no exclusive rights conveyed.

  11. #11
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorswithdon View Post
    What an unbelievable sense of entitlement the first post here expresses. If those tags are on Federal land - Alaskans should have no advantage over any US citizen at drawing the tags. State or private land is a different matter. AK should manage them however they want, including excluding all nonresidents if they choose. If people can't feed their families taking their fair share of wild game, they need to rethink the lifestyle they have chosen. The rest of the hunters/taxpayers in this country paid for that land and we are under no obligation to feed your families.

    Alaska, like all states, is granted the privilege of managing federal property - there are no exclusive rights conveyed.

    Alaska Statutes. Title 16. Fish and Game Chapter 20. Conservation and Protection of Alaska Fish and Game Section 10. Legislative Recognition; Prohibition Against Ceding State Authority. previous: Chapter 20. Conservation and Protection of Alaska Fish and Game
    next: Section 20. Purpose.

    AS 16.20.010. Legislative Recognition; Prohibition Against Ceding State Authority.


    (a) The legislature recognizes that

    (1) the state has jurisdiction over all fish and game in the state except in those areas where it has assented to federal control;

    (2) the state has not assented to federal control of fish and game in

    (A) those areas that were set apart as National Bird and Wildlife Refuges while the state was a United States territory; and

    (B) Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve or the navigable waters within or adjoining the park and preserve;

    (3) special recognition of the value to the state and the nation of areas of unspoiled habitat and the game characteristic to it will be demonstrated by designating as state game refuges those federal lands that were National Bird and Wildlife Refuges or Ranges at the time that Alaska achieved statehood.

    (b) [Renumbered as 16.05.935(a)].

    (c) [Renumbered as AS 16.05.935 (b)].
    ............................
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  12. #12

    Default I doubt any are on federal land

    and yes, we are entitled as we do live in Alaska. Sorry, but federal land is not managed like that here. Can piss and moan over it all we want. Not going to change how it is managed. I don't know of any draw hunts on park or refuge lands. Might be some though.

  13. #13
    Member germe1967's Avatar
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    Default Sense of entitlement????

    I am sick to death of lower 48ers who verbally chastise Alaskans about our "sense of entitlement" in harvesting, utilizing and enjoying the natural resources of the State of Alaska. That's right, the STATE, not protectorate, territory or FEDERAL PARK. And as far as pontificating about my ability to feed my family, I have no problem there. Probly bring in a bigger paycheck to my family than the self-righteous jerk who said it! I, like a number of my fellow Alaskans, realize that wild moose is HEALTHIER to feed my kids than the hormone infuzed beef we get from.......wait for it.........the lower 48!

  14. #14
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorswithdon View Post
    What an unbelievable sense of entitlement the first post here expresses. If those tags are on Federal land - Alaskans should have no advantage over any US citizen at drawing the tags. State or private land is a different matter. AK should manage them however they want, including excluding all nonresidents if they choose. If people can't feed their families taking their fair share of wild game, they need to rethink the lifestyle they have chosen. The rest of the hunters/taxpayers in this country paid for that land and we are under no obligation to feed your families.

    Alaska, like all states, is granted the privilege of managing federal property - there are no exclusive rights conveyed.
    What is interesting to me is that the "tax payers" also paid for the Louisiana purchase yet almost all of that land was completely turned over to the states as their borders were set and their individual constitutions ratified. Why is Alaska different? Why does the history clock conveniently only go back far enough to prove your flawed point?

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    Default No, federal land is most all game-managed by states

    Quote Originally Posted by outdoorswithdon View Post
    What an unbelievable sense of entitlement the first post here expresses. If those tags are on Federal land - Alaskans should have no advantage over any US citizen at drawing the tags.
    Name one state in the Union where this is true. I don't believe there is one.

    States manage the game within their own borders; all of them do, with the miniscule exceptions of additional federal subsistence permits offered by the feds in some specific places.

    Try going to Colorado, Idaho, Utah, Montana, Wyoming, etc... and applying for a hunt on BLM land - you tell me who you applied to. It'll be the state, and they'll pillage you financially because you don't live in their state. Same thing we do here in Alaska.

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    Kind of hard to believe how many people are disagreeing with the OP. There are already seasons and tags reserved for certain classes of people, why not cow tags for residents? I'm sure there's been a discussion or two about reserving a certain percentage of sheep tags for residents...

    As for trying to feed a family...if you're flying from the lower 48, that's $500 (min) right there, plus extra shipping if you're successful (assuming you arrive with nothing and your gear/transportation is provided for) plus out of state license ($85) + tag ($400)... Would it really be about putting 'food on the table'? Really?

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by germe1967 View Post
    I am sick to death of lower 48ers who verbally chastise Alaskans about our "sense of entitlement" in harvesting, utilizing and enjoying the natural resources of the State of Alaska. That's right, the STATE, not protectorate, territory or FEDERAL PARK. And as far as pontificating about my ability to feed my family, I have no problem there. Probly bring in a bigger paycheck to my family than the self-righteous jerk who said it! I, like a number of my fellow Alaskans, realize that wild moose is HEALTHIER to feed my kids than the hormone infuzed beef we get from.......wait for it.........the lower 48!
    Easy there big fella...your original post, and this one, sound a little self-righteous in their own right.

    Like others have said, could be several good reasons for non-residents to have drawn some antlerless tags. As a resident you have plenty of opportunities to harvest healthy wild game - moose, caribou, bear, salmon, etc - so put your knowledge to good use, and feed your family the good stuff.

  18. #18

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    Vince, you cited AK statutes. Who cares. They don't have jurisdiction over federal laws. Check the FAA if you don't think AK has tried to override federal laws in the recent past and was summarily told to sit down and shut up. AK legislators can make all the rules they want. Doesn't make them enforceable. It only becomes an issue when someone forces the feds hands - like when a resident of a state decides nonresidents shouldn't have access to federal resources.

    Germe, You live in the United States - AK is not separate from the "lower 48" Same laws and rules - sorry. I think it's spectacular that you choose to feed your family with game meat, but there are rules and game has to be apportioned to give all American's an equal chance at the resource. It is the very reason we need to keep as much of AK public as possible. It is a recent acquisition and of course will be managed differently for the good of all Americans. Times are different than when the rest of the country was settled. Trying to apply the same standards to the way states were settled 200 years ago and now is apples and oranges. And how much you and I earn is not relevant.

    Familyman, I have hunted all those states and many more, including a month every year in AK. I agree the fees are out of line in some states. It's why every year there is a federal lawsuit or two challenging them. Some of them have been successful. The difference is that though some states require a guide on select federal ground (Wyoming), and others drastically limit the number of nonresident tags or make them too expensive (Illinois), they all have a way for nonresidents to still have a shot at hunting. What I continually hear from some hunters here is taking away all hunting rights from nonresidents. That will never be upheld if challenged in court if done on federal land.

  19. #19
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The feds controll subsistance here Don and they seldom allow even local urban to hunt it. I know things are perferct in shytown where folks are poaching people out of season and I bet if an Alaskan came to Chicago for poaching and got caught they would throw the book at them insted of the slap on the wrist the locals get

  20. #20
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default I agree with a previous poster

    Nonresidents can pay the big bucks to hunt their trophy and take home its meat which costs them god-knows-how-much to eat back in their L48 digs. But cows should be for eating alone. There is not that much "sport" in shooting a cow. No bragging story. No trophy. Just meat that should end up in an Alaskan's freezer. Regardless whether outsiders give the meat away or not, in my opinion, nonresidents should not be able to draw on a cow.

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