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Thread: 243 Win,260 Rem,7mm-08 Rem,338 Fed,358Win....the 308 Winchester family.

  1. #1
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default 243 Win,260 Rem,7mm-08 Rem,338 Fed,358Win....the 308 Winchester family.

    I find this family of cartridges including the parent case (308) from which they've been designed from......to be perfectly adequate for anything in North America. A little touch of case taper, a short cartridge, a modest shoulder angle.........and these are the smoothest functioning cartridges (by design) around. Of course they they offer less velocity than most of the modern and latest/greatest cartridges, but is it enough of a handicap to not consider them and treat them as equals in the world of practical hunting cartridges? If you aren't speaking on behalf of the cartridges mentioned, please create another thread. If you have a story to share regarding one of the cartridges and your hunting experiences with them........then fire away.

    223 not scooting across 50 mph winds above the arctic circle? answer: 243 winchester

    want an ultralight rifle for everything deer or sheep and have similar ballistics to the highly regarded 270 winchester? answer: 260 Rem. or the 7mm08 Rem.

    Want to do it all? answer: yup that's right....the 308 grandaddy, not to mention the bullet selection for the 308 caliber

    Want an ultralight mountain rifle (with decent selection of long range bullets) where bears may come into camp? Answer: 338 Federal

    Want to thrash through brush for moose, bear, caribou and pack enough power for a bear encounter? Answer: 358 Winchester (of course....my favorite).

    Every year....some Alaskan folk do it their way, just view the pictures on this forum. For example, shooting bear and moose with every single cartridge of the 308 family. I'll never forget the picture of that massive bull moose from last season that a guy shot with his 7mm08 Remington, or the stories of grizz put down with a 308. No need to heckle the discussion with crazy ballistic technicalities, no need to over think.......just share your stories of hunting success and why you chose one of the cartridges listed above.

  2. #2

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    I've got deep personal experience with the 243, 308 and 358 on game, using them more or less continuously since the 1960's. Only reason I have slight experience with the 7-08 is the long string of 7x57's and 284's already in the house. It's just never been able to elbow the others out of my rack. Same answer for the 260.

    Without dredging up any individual stories, I don't recall a single head of Coues whitetail, Columbia blacktail, Sitka blacktail, mule deer, blackbear, elk or moose in 50 years that's needed a second shot.

    I haven't taken any elk or moose with the 243, but I'm fond of telling about the mom, dad and young son that opened up on a small bunch of elk at a dead run on our place in the Southwest. Mom was shooting a 300 Winnie, dad a 338, and JR a 243. Mom went through a mag plus a little, dad went through two mags, and JR shot only three times. Three elk down, and each of the three had a single bullet hole in each when I hoisted it with the tractor for skinning. All three elk were killed with single well-placed 100 grain Winchester factory loads.

    Ya gotta hit em, and ya gotta hit em right to kill em, no matter the ballistics.

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    Member markopolo50's Avatar
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    Default 30-06?

    I always thought the .308 was a shortened 30-06 but I am not sure that is the case. I know the 308 is very popular and many believe it is better than the 06. It may be better because many snipers use the .308. Interesting how many cartidges are offshoots of others. Thanks for the insight.

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    Member HuntKodiak's Avatar
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    Default 7mm-08

    Great timing. I just bought a Kimber 84M Montana in 7mm-08 to become my light mountain rifle. The gun will arrive next week w/scope, and the outfit w/scope & rings will weigh no more than 6.5lbs.

    I chose the short action cartridge to save weight by using a rifle manufacturer that actually puts a short action in the rifle. Of the short actions, 7mm-08 got my choice because of the large availability of bullets for reloading and factory ammo too. I expect the ammo will shoot no worse than 7" low at 300yds with a 200yd zero, which will keep the bullet within 2" of line-of-sight until I start getting closer to 300 yards.

    I plan on shooting Barnes TTSX in 120gr or 140gr. That'll be determined in testing.

    It'll be fun to hear what others have done.

  5. #5

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    I would hate to guess how many coyotes that I have killed with my Ruger 77 243 since I got it back in the mid 70's.

    Two facts that I do remember is I killed 8 yotes in one week and 56 on the year also 13 fox were tallied that year(1990). That gun was retired a couple of years ago. It was on its second barrel and was needing a third( it also did a few prairie dog episodes). Hornady 70 grain SPT's were about the only thing that gun ever shot and 1 1/4- 1 1/2 inch groups were the norm for those 70 grainers!

    If I could only have one centerfire rifle it would be a 308!

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    I just bought a .308 win for an all-around rifle. It looks like it can handle anything in North America other than brown bears and maybe moose. Given that I don't plan on hunting either, I saw no reason to take more recoil or weight than necessary. It looks like there are even managed recoil cartridges that give it similar performance to a 30-30 which is great for building a battery than anyone in the family can shoot comfortably and accurately.

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    Default

    Did they come out with a .416-08 . It is a great piece of brass.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Default

    I've been a big fan of the .308 for twenty years and I've never looked back. I've played with bigger and faster cartridges and I keep coming back to the .308. Maybe the recoil is finally pounding some sense into me...

    Looking back at journals, I've taken a lot of game with a .308. I've eyed the .338 Fed. since introduction and I hope to try one out one day, its likely the only cartridge introduction of the last few years that I really think is practical. I think the .338 in a Kimber Montana at 5lbs 1 oz would be really tough to beat. I love the .243 Win and the idea of the 260 Rem. is appealing for some reason or other.

    I think all this poo-pooing of the .308(and offspring) as inadequate is just plain wrong. Modern .308 loads are virtually identical to the loads of yesteryear that made the '06's reputation and who could argue that those were ineffective? I've yet to find any shooting situation where 100fps would matter one bit.

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    Default

    Over the years I shot seals, caribou and moose with a 243, back in those days I used a Winchester 70 post 64, also a Remington 700 ADL. 7mm-08 was a Remington 700 stainless which I used for seals and caribou, never got a chance to shoot a moose with it though and for my 308 which I carried for years it was Ruger M77 stainless the older model with the paddle looking stock, with that rifle I shot caribou, moose and one time I even shot a walrus with it.
    Sure would like to try out the new 260 and 338 federal one day, and since I am a big fan of the 358 I would get one of those new Ruger M77 Hawkeye Stainless rifles in 358 win, those new Ruger rifles sure look like they would be good utility rifles.
    The reason I chose the rifles and cartridges that I mentioned above was because back in those days that was all I could afford, one of the rifles was given to me as a gift and another one was a borrowed rifle and secondly there was always ammo on the village store shelves.

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    Default

    When the US was looking for a shorter cartridge to stuff into the up-coming m-14, and provide the same velocity, thus the 7.62x51, or the commercial version the .308 Winnie.

    It was not "by design" a slick feeding shell, if you want slick feeding, look at the .300 H&H.

    The rest of the shells were just necked up or down .308 cases.

    If you want to play in the bushes for bear with a .358, you do that, I prefer the biggest hammer I can get.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Default Granted, its not a serious one, BUT,,,,,,

    They all, at least most of them, suffer from the same problem, DESIGN wise.

    Heavy for caliber bullets must be seated into the powder space more, OR deeper, than their longer counterparts. I'm not saying you CAN'T shoot heavy for caliber bullets in them.

    Another DESIGN issue is the short necks, which some of us unreasonable people don't like either.

    If the short actions for these cartridges were slightly longer, and the cartridges themselves had longer necks, I'd agree with you.

    But, even though they will serve well, I consider them to be a compromise, howbeit a small one, in design and even in performance.

    IMO, a PERFECT cartridge design would be something like the 7mm Mauser (7x57). I like the older cartridges with more body taper, and longer necks, which were designed for smooth feeding and extraction, and longer boolits.

    Some things cannot be improved on. I don't see the 308 family of cartridges as an improvement.

    How many animals, and of what kind, a cartridge has been used successfully for, is somewhat meaningless, since most any cartridge will kill.

    Smitty of the North
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  12. #12

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    There is something to your murmerings there Smitty. The 6,7 and 8 milli-peters would make a pretty good three rifle battery. The 6mm and 7mm out shine their conterparts based on the 308 case and the 8mm is neck for neck with the 338 Federal. One could kill lots of stuff with those three!

    The tapper and feed issues that you eluded to is zactly why I don't like the short mags much!

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    There is something to your murmerings there Smitty. The 6,7 and 8 milli-peters would make a pretty good three rifle battery. The 6mm and 7mm out shine their conterparts based on the 308 case and the 8mm is neck for neck with the 338 Federal. One could kill lots of stuff with those three!

    The tapper and feed issues that you eluded to is zactly why I don't like the short mags much!
    Yep, good points there. All of'em.

    Smitty of the North
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    The tapper and feed issues that you eluded to is zactly why I don't like the short mags much!
    How come my short mag cycles like butter???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    How many animals, and of what kind, a cartridge has been used successfully for, is somewhat meaningless, since most any cartridge will kill.

    Smitty of the North
    Couldn't have said it much better myself. Scarry Smitty... scarry...

  16. #16

    Default bullets

    With todays bullets I see no need for heavy for caliber bullets (Barnes TSX). I have been shooting 140's out of my 7-08 and have yet to recover one. If the 120's shot as good as the 140's I'd use those!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    How come my short mag cycles like butter???

    BECAUZZZZZZ,,,,

    You left all that "One Shot" case lube on'em.

    The directions say to wipe it off.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
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    Member Dan in Alaska's Avatar
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    My experience with the .308 family has been with the necked down versions. I shot my dad's .243 quite a bit when I was younger, and I successfully used it on whitetail. I don't own a rifle in this chambering, as an adult, but I aim to fix that one of these days. The .243 (or the AI'ed version) is on my list of rifles I'd like to build.

    I briefly had a stainless Model 7 in .260 Rem. I liked the chambering, but the factory tupperware stock soured me on this particular model 7. Rather than pony up for a McMillan handle, and wait many months, I moved on.

    After dumping the Model 7, I picked up a used Remington Ti in 7mm-08. I can't think of a finer sheep rifle I've ever handled. The rifle is amazingly light and nimble, yet it shoots much better than it should. This rifle, coupled with the 120gr TSX, is a highly effective hunting tool. I've taken a couple of blacktails and a moose with this combo.




    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    How many animals, and of what kind, a cartridge has been used successfully for, is somewhat meaningless, since most any cartridge will kill.
    I agree. I more a fan of caliber and bullet selection than I am of cartridge selection. For instance, I'd prefer the .284 caliber over the .270 caliber, because of the wider selection of 7mm bullets to choose from. I feel the same way about the .338 & 8mm caliber comparison; there are a lot more 338 bullets out there to choose from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    IMO, a PERFECT cartridge design would be something like the 7mm Mauser (7x57). I like the older cartridges with more body taper, and longer necks, which were designed for smooth feeding and extraction, and longer boolits.

    Some things cannot be improved on. I don't see the 308 family of cartridges as an improvement.
    I do see the 7mm-08 as an improvement on the 7x57 in regards to the short action Remington 700. The s/a Remington's magazine length is just a smidge over 2.8 inches, and in this particular magazine, the 7mm-08 fits better than the 7x57. Context is everything.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan in Alaska View Post
    I do see the 7mm-08 as an improvement on the 7x57 in regards to the short action Remington 700. The s/a Remington's magazine length is just a smidge over 2.8 inches, and in this particular magazine, the 7mm-08 fits better than the 7x57. Context is everything.
    Bingo. It's all about matching the round to the rifle. No sense putting any of the 308 family in a long action unless you plan on a custom throat and seating the longest bullets out with their base at the base of the case neck. And no sense trying to fit a 7x57 family case into a short action, as seen with the 6mm Remington and 257 Roberts.

    Good news, if you like a particular rifle, long action or short, there are cartridges out there that are suitable for each while giving similar ballistics.

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    The 7mm-08 would be my choice of anything built on the 308 case, and a short action, but then I like 7mm. All of my CF rifles are of 7mm Caliber, ceptin 30-30 and a 338 WM.

    My Mauser action 7x57s seem to have actions that are shorter than your regular LAs? But, then I don't know how to measure action length.

    In other words, a 7x57 doesn't need a LA, just enough longer to fit the 7x57 length, However, I spose a lot of 7x57s are built on LAs, (30-06 Length)

    I view the entire 308 "Family", as a compromise, due to the short necks and the short OALs required.

    I could live with a 7mm-08, but only if I couldn't find the right 7x57. It suits my notions of how things should be, much better.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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