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Thread: I found some 308 heavy wieght bullets

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    Exclamation I found some 308 heavy wieght bullets

    I went over to midway usa and was looking around and i found some diff wieghts bullets in 308 cal in the following wieghts .

    -x-Sierra match king 308 cal 240 grain boat-tail hollow points
    -x-Sierra match king 308 cal -220.grain boat -tail hollow points
    -x-Hornady A-Max 308 cal-208 grain boat tail hollow points
    -x-Berger 308 cal 190 grain VLD boat tail hollow points ..

    i figure the 220 and 240 grain would be good for moose and the 208 grain for elk and the 190 grain VLD would be good for long range sheep hunting out to 400 yards with the rifle ..

    i order a few boxs of each and going to work a load for each of them in the 308 cal for they come in boxs of 500 or 100 bullets so i order 500 bullets bulk packs for reloading along with some fresh brass and primers and powder for the rifle ..

    so heavy bullets and under 200 yards shots would be the way to go for moose

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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Default 200 Max !

    Henry,
    I don't think Sierra even lists loading info for anything in the 308 over 200 grns???
    You are asking a lot of the 308 to push anything over 200gns and realistically 180gns will probably be the optimum "big" bullet you will want for this caliber.
    You have plenty bullet for moose at 180 and still good velocity for distance.
    The 165 gn has been the "go to" bullet of choice for the 308 for most shooters and would work very well for your longer range shots.
    I shoot a lot of 300win mag stuff and 200 gns is max I push outa those guns... 308 case is not made to handle those bigguns.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I was able to load 220's to 2,150fps and they were as long as the gun would chamber. Think you may have to do chamber work to get a 250. you can get a 200 to close to 2,500fps

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    Altough all rifles are different and a multitude of things effect accuracy, as said before.......the 200 grainers are max for a 308 and can be pushed pretty darned well out of a 308. The 1:12" twist should do a good job of stabilizing a 200 grain bullet. Those larger bullets henry....are better suited to the 30-06 with a longer neck, and much more poweder capacity to handle those longer bullets, and a faster 1:10" twist. A 200 grain partiion....and henry, you're all set, no need to overthink a thing. Not to mention the countless hunters in this state who use a 180 grain bullet in a 30-06 and 308 every year and shoot every game species in this state. (with the exception of one or two hunts that require a minumum of a 200 grain bullet) Do you have some sort of fettish for long-range, boat-tailed bullets?? Flat based bullets work just fine Henry, no need for a bullet larger than 180 grain(out of a 308 used for huntin) to have a boat tail, especially when this is a big/slow bullet use for moose, bear, n caribou at reasonable range.

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    I would stick with bullets of 180gr or less in the 308. Most 308s have a 1/12 twist which makes bullet stability difficult on longer bullets especially with the lower velocity of the heavier bullets. The sierra match kings are not hunting bullets and normally won't expand. Although the 165s are probably the best compromise I have used the 308 and 150grs on two moose and all bullets were pass throughs. I would use 180s or 200s if hunting brown bear with a 308 but I wouldn't hunt brown bear with a 308 unless that's the best I could get my hands on.

  6. #6

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    Henry, I would highly recommend giving RL17 a try in your 308. I have read numeroud reports of RL17 producing near 30.06 velocities in the 308 and it has shown incredible velocity increases in the cartridges I have loaded in. I agree with staying with a 180 or 165 gr bullet. With RL17 you could porbably get good velocity with 200 gr bullets.

    Just something to think about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henry2 View Post
    I went over to midway usa and was looking around and i found some diff wieghts bullets in 308 cal in the following wieghts .

    -x-Sierra match king 308 cal 240 grain boat-tail hollow points
    -x-Sierra match king 308 cal -220.grain boat -tail hollow points
    -x-Hornady A-Max 308 cal-208 grain boat tail hollow points
    -x-Berger 308 cal 190 grain VLD boat tail hollow points ..

    i figure the 220 and 240 grain would be good for moose and the 208 grain for elk and the 190 grain VLD would be good for long range sheep hunting out to 400 yards with the rifle ..

    i order a few boxs of each and going to work a load for each of them in the 308 cal for they come in boxs of 500 or 100 bullets so i order 500 bullets bulk packs for reloading along with some fresh brass and primers and powder for the rifle ..

    so heavy bullets and under 200 yards shots would be the way to go for moose
    I don't believe any of those are hunting bullets. The clue should be "matchking".

    As for moose, inside 200 yards is a good idea. You didn't mention the cartridge you want to use these bullets in, 30 Remington up to 300 Lapua mag and everything in between take .308" bullets.

    You shouldn't order large quantities of unknown, unproven bullets until you test a few of them in your rifle.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Henry, I would highly recommend giving RL17 a try in your 308. I have read numeroud reports of RL17 producing near 30.06 velocities in the 308 and it has shown incredible velocity increases in the cartridges I have loaded in. I agree with staying with a 180 or 165 gr bullet. With RL17 you could porbably get good velocity with 200 gr bullets.

    Just something to think about.
    MT,
    I don't know he is using a 308 Winchester but if so, I can assure you that in the 308 Winchester, the 7.62x51 NATO, your reports about RL-17 and the 308 are significantly false. IF my tests with that powder (two different lots) are indicative of the rest of the RL-17 powder. It is a very good powder but does nothing magical when loaded to the same pressure levels. Vihta N540 is the only available powder to peak velocities in the 308 Winchester.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by henry2 View Post
    I went over to midway usa and was looking around and i found some diff wieghts bullets in 308 cal in the following wieghts .

    -x-Sierra match king 308 cal 240 grain boat-tail hollow points
    -x-Sierra match king 308 cal -220.grain boat -tail hollow points
    -x-Hornady A-Max 308 cal-208 grain boat tail hollow points
    -x-Berger 308 cal 190 grain VLD boat tail hollow points ..
    I agree completely with Murphy, these are not bullets intended for hunting, with the possible exception the 190 Berger. Remembering your previous post concerning a 308 Winchester I would suggest at the velocity you can launch those bullets from a short action they are not going to be good performers IMO.

    In the 308 I would give a long look at 180 grain bullets such as the Hornday Interlock & Sierra Prohunter/Gameking. If you want a more exotic bullet you might try the 185 grain Lapua Mega. I would be confident using any of these bullets at 308 Win-30/06 velocities on moose.

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    Exactly what Murphy said, and what I related to you in your other .308 WIN post... wrong type of projectiles... paper punchers, varmints, and bad guys.

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    henry,

    Yes I too remember your other 308 WINCHESTER post, now. Sorry for the confusion.

    Send me you mailing address and I'll send you some hunting bullets for the 308 WINCHESTER to use for moose and other heavies. The caliber is marginal for big stuff as you might guess and therefore needs selected premium bullets for bigger critters.
    I have some 180 round nose and 170 grain flat nose partition bullets (no longer made) and they have worked for elk with the 308 WINCHESTER.

    I have loaded ammo for many cartridges and many hunters the world over and have ten life times of reports of various cartridges, bullets, and game. I know what works. As I said before I have lots of personal experience with the 308 WINCHESTER. The 165 grain partition, would be my all round bullet for the 308 WINCHESTER, but would go to the 180 in a good premium bullet for moose. Or the 165 grain Swift A-frame. You will not be nocking over sheep at 400 yards for several reasons, but even to score a good hit the 165 grain spitzer designs are great. Some will suggest the Barnes TSX bullet but in the small 308 WINCHESTER case, powder space is limited and we don't need longer bullets. The Kodiak bullet is bonded and in their protected tip,is an excellent bullet. In 165 or 180 weight will be a moose bullet. There is rarely any reason to take long shots at moose as stalking to within bow range is easy. Get inside 100 yards and place shots precisely. Study the anatomy and make a heart shot. DO NOT attempt top brain a moose.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Default Solid Advice Murphy!

    Ya don't hear of many using a round nose much anymore and it sure can be effective!
    Ah, did I detect somewhere in your past you left a "beauty mark" between the eyes of a big Ole bull that is still roaming the wilds?
    Randy

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    MT,
    I don't know he is using a 308 Winchester but if so, I can assure you that in the 308 Winchester, the 7.62x51 NATO, your reports about RL-17 and the 308 are significantly false. IF my tests with that powder (two different lots) are indicative of the rest of the RL-17 powder. It is a very good powder but does nothing magical when loaded to the same pressure levels. Vihta N540 is the only available powder to peak velocities in the 308 Winchester.
    Murphy, I don't doubt your experiences and maybe there is an interenet conspiracy going on, but here are just a few of many posts I've read about RL17 and the 308 and 308 family of cartridges including the 7mm.08 and 243.


    Here's this thread...

    This guy is an Alaskan resident if that makes any difference...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/ok-i-am-believer-308-rl-17-208-amax-sweet-spot-54102/index2.html

    WOW!

    After all the buzz lately about RL-17 in a 308 and me being the 308 nut that I am just could not resist the temptation to go out and see what it is all about. I loaded up some 168 AMAX's, 200 SGK's and 208 AMAX's for testing the other day and went to the range today to see what would become of this. Well all I can say is that I am encouraged.

    First the 168's. I loaded up 3 groups of 3 + two foul shots for the clean barrel. Loads were as follows. 48.0, 49.0, 50.0 grains of RL-17 under the 168 AMAX loaded to 2.840 OACL and .020" off the lands. The velocity for the 48.0 load was right around 2800 FPS. Velocity for the 49.0 charge was just over 2850 and the velocity for the 50.0 charge was 2903. Yes you read that right. 2903 with absolutely NO pressure signs whatsoever. The bolt lift was if there was a virgin case in the chamber and the primer had no crater, no excessive flatness and there were no marks on the base whatsoever. This load also group 0.3 MOA. It gets even better.

    Next I moved on to the 208 AMAX. I only loaded 3 bullets total just to test velocity. After the test, I could make a decision as to where to go from there. I started low with 45.0 and jumped to 47.0 and then jumped to 49.0 grains. The first (45.0) was a dissapointing 2484 FPS. After the second shot things were looking up with 2609 FPS. The extraction and cases/primers were all flawless so I opted to torch off the 49.0 load. Jenny belched out that dag gum 208 grain AMAX at an astounding 2714 FPS. After seeing the chrony I thought "Oh boy....this bolt is going to be sticky...." Much to my utter amazment, the bolt lift was just as easy as with any other normal load I have ever fired. No case markings and no primer crater ZILCH! The amazing part about this is that all 3 of those 208's that were 2 grains between them for a total of 4 grain from start to finish, repeat after me......4 grains of difference, the group was under 1.200 MOA. UNDER 1.200 MOA! This opens a whole lot more possibilities.

    And this thread...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...8-winny-53549/

    Loaded the 175's with 46.5grns (known from a previous trial) I shot an avg. of .75" at 100 (best ever with this bullet) with a velocity of 2577fps. Hain't to shabby if you ask me. The best I could get out of this rifle prior to RL-17 was 2412 w/ a 175/168's and using RL-15 and 4064. I would expect with a long barrel you would get some serious velocity. I haven't been able to test that theory yet, but this powder was made for Short mags with short barrels. This is a comp chamber, so tolerances are tighter than a SAAMI spec chamber. This has kind of been the down fall of this rifle. I would expect a normal chambers compaction would be a little less. I want to try another powder which is made by Accurate powders.
    Beat me to it! i was going to wait till sunday so i can get one or two more range trips in before i make my stand.

    I am shooting 208gr A-maxs with 48grs of RL17 in a 1-11tw 28" Hart on my .308win.

    I am getting 2820fps and most of the seating depths ive tried produced just at .5 MOA, at 400yards! I have a 5shot group under 2" and a 3 shot 1.5" group on the same target.

    I will probably test again tomorrow and do drop testing at a variety of ranges to confirm my results. I will then post about my results aswell.
    So far my drops have been consistent with 2830fps and also got that from a chronograph with witnesses. I was going to shoot a bit more before doing a full blown report. I think I will still post my finding Sunday because this is a combo that finaly makes the .308win viable for 1k deer.
    ...he speak the truth! It was my chronograph he shot over and I watched every single round fired and watched the read-out with almost disbelief. There were two other guys at the range that were balancing between smiling with anticipation of working up their own loads and crapping their pants. One other little fact....velocities were measured in 28-30 degree temps!

    Further, It was my mild steel plate that those 208grain Amax's almost penetrated at 400 yards. Here's a pic of one of the groups. The ruler isn't quite oriented right in the pic. It's right at .5 moa

    RL17 in the 308 is the shizzle!
    I tried R-17 under a 190SMK in my factory Rem SPS-V in .308. I was getting 2600fps with 47gr of R-17 out of the 26" factory tube using CCI 200 primers, didn't go any higher as I was crunching powder something fierce.
    And this thread...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...x-308-a-55733/

    If you want more velocity try RL-17 or RL-19, VV N-550 or VV N-560. I would be suprised if you didnt reach 2700+ FPS with one of those.

    As stated earlier, many of us here are seeing 2600-2800 in our 308's including myself. IMHO, 2800 is really pushing it. However, with RL17 and VV N550, 2600-2650 is actually a very safe and modest load in a 26" barrel. My load is 2700 but I am working on one in the 2600-2630 range. I would sleep better at night as 2700 just seems too good to be true. There has to be a trade off somewhere.

    These are just a few of many posts in this particular forum. If you care to search BR Central, Sniper's Hide, Reloader's Nest, 24 hr Campfire and others, you'll find a lot more. If you search these (AOD) forums you'll find a lot supporting reports on RL17 in general but I don't recall, and haven'tsearched on the 308 in particular.

    So what do ya think Murphy? Are all these guys lying? Is it a huge nation wide internet conspiracy? Or is there something to it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Ya don't hear of many using a round nose much anymore and it sure can be effective!
    Ah, did I detect somewhere in your past you left a "beauty mark" between the eyes of a big Ole bull that is still roaming the wilds?
    Randy

    No I did not but I've had the misfortune of witnessing three such fiascos. The brain is very small and not where most think it is. I've heard dozens of stories head shot, or more accurately face shot moose. Pretty sad.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    Murphy, I don't doubt your experiences and maybe there is an interenet conspiracy going on, but here are just a few of many posts I've read about RL17 and the 308 and 308 family of cartridges including the 7mm.08 and 243.


    Here's this thread...

    This guy is an Alaskan resident if that makes any difference...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/ok-i-am-believer-308-rl-17-208-amax-sweet-spot-54102/index2.html




    And this thread...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...8-winny-53549/











    And this thread...

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...x-308-a-55733/




    These are just a few of many posts in this particular forum. If you care to search BR Central, Sniper's Hide, Reloader's Nest, 24 hr Campfire and others, you'll find a lot more. If you search these (AOD) forums you'll find a lot supporting reports on RL17 in general but I don't recall, and haven'tsearched on the 308 in particular.

    So what do ya think Murphy? Are all these guys lying? Is it a huge nation wide internet conspiracy? Or is there something to it?
    I don't say anyone is lying, just that my experiences differ. The 308 case is too small to hold enough RL-17 to get velocities any higher with any bullet than various other powders that were here before. When you set up a universal receiver with a 308 barrel and start checking pressures, you will see how those "loads made with magical powders" really perform. Also long line shooters who use the 308 Winchester usually use a custom chamber with a long throat to shoot a specific bullet. Seating depth then gives us a little more room and all those other things which change the pressure signature. Making ammo that will stay within the SAAMI pressure limits in a SAAMI chamber with all the dimensions that go with the cartridge is entirely different from specialty work with special equipment.

    RL-17 is slower, more like H4350 in burn rate, higher energy, yes, but there just isn't enough room for it even though it will be well suited for the heaviest bullets. Though it would work better with heavy bullets in long barrels than any more traditional 308 Win burn rate powders. That 190 grain MK is a very long bullet and if seated to 2.800", will encroach on powder space drastically. I'm surprised you can get 47 grains of RL-17 in the case. My Lapua brass almost holds 47.0 to the top.

    I shot the Palma matches for a while. It is very hard to get enough velocity from the 308 Winchester to stabilize that bullet way down range. Sierra came up with a bullet for us, and with a 29" barrel and one in 11 twist, we made it. As twist rate gets faster, pressure goes up and velocity goes down, so we cant just say, tighter twist. The whole equation must be considered. Twist rate, velocity and bullet profile all come into play here. And all must live within the constraints of 60,000 psi. Yes a good gun will take significantly more, but that's a ball game I don't want to play. I'm an engineer, I understand the numbers. I also understand the limits of these mechanical contraptions and know even though they can take a lot of punishment, they can let go with no warning.

    I don't deny the added performance of the RL-17, just in the 308 Winchester, it isn't what some are claiming, giving sporting barrel length and standard dims of cartridge and chamber.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  16. #16

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    thank you guys for the info on the 308 hunting loads for Alaska ..so iam basically go in and cancel the heavy weight bullets and go for the normal 180 grain for basic for the moose along with staying the 165 grain weight for everything else ..

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    Henry,
    Those bullets are all so heavy I doubt a .308 Win will stabilize them. My .308 will barely stabilize 180gr. You will also find that velocities will be low. These days (IMHO) we have superb bullets that make those super heavy for caliber rounds superfluous for hunting. They're mostly out there for super long range shooting.

    Get a good quality 165gr or 180gr(Partition, TSX, TBBC, Kodiak, et al) your rifle likes and go fill the freezer. No need to overthink this thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by henry2 View Post
    thank you guys for the info on the 308 hunting loads for Alaska ..so iam basically go in and cancel the heavy weight bullets and go for the normal 180 grain for basic for the moose along with staying the 165 grain weight for everything else ..

    Yep... good plan... all this match bullet stuff and group-sizes --- ISN'T THE POINT.

    Excellent hunting accuracy can be achieved with 165 and 180 grain 'hunting bullets'... Premiums like controled expansion NOSLER PARTITION are hard to be outdone in .308 WIN. Good accuracy, velocity, and performance.

    Another nice Deer, Sheep, and Caribou bullet suggestion (often very accurate and expands traditionally well) is Sierra GameKing --- however, this would not be the best Moose projectile.

    Anything in the mountain hunting scenarios can pan out well with .308 WIN w/ a partition bullet placed right at reasonable velocity in 165 or 180 grain.

    As critters get heavier... I tend to go 180 grain and have never been let down in .308 WIN or .30-'06 with the Nosler Partition bullet.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by henry2 View Post
    thank you guys for the info on the 308 hunting loads for Alaska ..so iam basically go in and cancel the heavy weight bullets and go for the normal 180 grain for basic for the moose along with staying the 165 grain weight for everything else ..
    Henry, I agree about the 180's being at the heavy side of the .308.
    Also, cancel those matchkings, and check into Huntingkings, I believe that even though they are called "hollowpoints", the matchkings are more of a target (non-expanding) hollowpoint...and the hollowpoint is just a tiny "paperclip diameter" hole for aerodynamics...without the serations for expansion. I believe the matchkings are one of the bullets of choice for military competative target shooting. Check the Huntingkings.

    I would go with whatever Murphy sends you! Then try to find similar duplicates locally.

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    I meant "GAME"kings. But it sounds like the 180gr Nosler Partitions would be the way to go. I know they work REAL well out of a .300!

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