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Thread: 45/70

  1. #1
    Member nibenza's Avatar
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    Default 45/70

    Hey all,

    I've been reading for awhile and thought I would jump in. I'm a life long Alaskan minus 10 long years. Having previously hunted with a 300 Win mag I have picked up a Marlin Guide gun since moving back. As with all my moose hunting in my formal life up here being running rivers and shots being 100 to 250 yards I thought the 45/70 would be a good choice, bears at close quarters being part of the problem as I do get off the river and beat the brush while calling. I searched the archives and did not see anything so would like to ask; any thoughts on the new LeverEvolution ammo, anyone have any experience with Wild West Magnum 457 etc?
    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Member Jason in Anchorage's Avatar
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    Default 45-70

    i have owned a 45-70 and took a moose with it. Used Buffalo Bore 350 grain flatpoint ammo. I would not recommend the new hornady ammo for bears/protection...get some Buff Bore or Garrett Cartridge ammo for dangerous game. Now if you are chasing black bears or deer, etc...I think the hornady lever evolution is designed for that but I would still choose the Buff Bore. I had my Buff Bore 350s chrono'd and if I had it 3" high at 96 yards, it would be dead on at 150 and 3" low at 195. Sounds like that is what you need and that stuff is designed to punch holes and break bones. Just want you want in dangerous game country
    Psalm 18:34
    He trains my hands for war, so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.

  3. #3
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    Default 45/70

    I've used the garrett 420 grs. and 520 grs. and they are both good stoppers. I prefer the 420 grs. for hunting with and have shot them out to 200 yds with good accuracy from a scoped guide gun. I use the 520 grs. when I'm just carrying it for protection. I've never used the hornady leverlutions but would only use them on thin skin game. There's also a brand called alaska backpacker ammunition that I've never tried but I'm sure it would be effective too.

  4. #4
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    Wink 45-70 Ammo

    This past fall two of us backpacked for black bears. My cousin used a TC Contender 12 inch bbl. in 35 remington with the same brand of ammo your considering . No bears were shot, but he shot a large black squrrel which he wanted to mount, at 70 yards. Massive expansion , from the short barreled pistol, half the underside was missing, not the type bullet performance I would trust on larger game. Get yourself some garrett's, or other hard cast type ammo MHO. Bill.
    ; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed. 1 SAMUEL 2;30

  5. #5

    Default 45-70

    I think they could do the trick, I know penetration is very important, but I like a happy medium with plenty of expansion. More bullet energy delivered to the target and not delivered the dirt behind the target is better. At 2000 fps I donít think the 325g hornady interlock bullet is going to blow up. Hornady pushes their interlock bullets in their factory loads up to 3000fps.

    Just an example I donít shoot Barnes X bullets, because IMHO there JUST penetration little expansion and small wound channels. I would much prefer a Nosler Partition that sheds weight and creates a huge wound channel, and secondary wound channels from shrapnel, the Hornady interlock bullet is similar in how it performs. It doesnít retain 99% of itís weight but I personally like 60-70% is better.

    I know you canít take everything you read as gospel, but the testing done by Hornady on several buffalo with the 45-70 no bullets were recovered, all had passed thru and quick kills. There also was an article in North American Hunter, the editor of the magazine or something like that was chasing coastal brown bear with a Marlin lever action 444 Hornady leverevolution ammo.

    All previous post are assumptions about the ammo, not cold hard facts, try them out you may like them.

  6. #6

    Default

    The question isn't what the editor was shooting, what type of bullet did the guide have?
    Mike
    Mike
    www.alaskaatvclub.org
    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Echo View Post
    The question isn't what the editor was shooting, what type of bullet did the guide have?
    Mike

    Amen Brudda!!!!!

  8. #8

    Default ammo

    I don’t know what the guide was using, but I have heard that the 45-70 325g leverevolution ammo drops elk like a bad habit. Can you guys say it doesn’t perform? Maybe you should try it out before you pass judgment on it.

    Don’t get me wrong I think Buffalo bore and Garrett make great cartridges that will do the job well on all game animals. But the hornady ammo is not $50-$75 a box.

  9. #9

    Smile 45-70 Ammo

    Choose the ammo you carry cautiously. The terminal performance of a bullet is not the only consideration. The rifle you carry may be ask to do a duty other than hunt. If you intend to beat the unbeaten paths, it might be required to serve as a protection device. As such it could be required to take shots at undesirable angles and target ares you wouldn't want. Then the bullet must perform cause yours or someone elses butt is on thr line. Choose a bullet with a large meplat (Meplat=large flat frontal area) if possible and ptactice a lot.

  10. #10

    Default

    If a 44 rem mag handgun could be considerd adequate bear protection. I think any 45-70 would be sufficient also.

  11. #11

    Default

    I don't know if anyone really truly considers 44 Mag "adequate", more like a wing and a prayer/better than nothing/save the last slug for me. I have never heard anyone recommend anything but hard cast bullets for the 44 either.
    Your choice, just my opinion.
    Mike
    Mike
    www.alaskaatvclub.org
    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  12. #12

    Default

    No, I think almost any handgun is insufficient.

    "prayer/better than nothing/save the last slug for me" you took the words out of my mouth.

  13. #13

    Default 45-70

    I've never used this gun, but can tell you I wasn't very impressed with it's/ammos use last spring. We were on a brown bear hunt and one of the guys with us had some problems bringing his bear down within 25 yards. I wasn't with him when it happened, but I know he shot at least 5 times and his backup gun shot 2 times with a 338 before bringing the bear down. Several were good solid hits and both hunters had a lot of experience. I believe he was using Buffalo Bore bullets, but I'm not sure how many grains-----bottom line was the tips were breaking off of the hard cast bullets. Of course the bear was amped up fighting another bear at the time and when the bears saw them they laid their ears back and stared circling-----so they decided it might be best to pick the biggest and shoot. The bear was 9 foot. I'm sure all that adrenaline made a difference in killing the bear, but when bullets are breaking off----come on. Made for an interesting situation though. Sure glad it turned out the way it did with a dead bear and not vice-versa.

  14. #14
    Member nibenza's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies.

    I did sight in and shot a box of Garrett 420 gr through it and feel comfortable with it to 200 yds. I was thinking of extending my range with it to 250-300yds. The cost and availability of Garrett was a concern but I see now they can be had from a dealer in Juneau.
    As every one knows there is always a compremise. The reasons for choosing the 45/70 is; if it's more than 300 yrds off the river, I'm not packing it, (2 back operations dictate it) and wondering around sounding like dinner (I've been stalked while bow hunting by a mountain lion ) I've had run ins with the dark side. Funny thing is in all my years of hunting up here my worst situations have been with cows with calfs. Anyway thanks for the input guys. I'll buy a box and see how they perform on the local squirrel population.

  15. #15
    Member nibenza's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies.

    I did sight in and shot a box of Garrett 420 gr through it and feel comfortable with it to 200 yds. I was thinking of extending my range with it to 250-300yds. The cost and availability of Garrett was a concern but I see now they can be had from a dealer in Juneau.
    As every one knows there is always a compremise. The reasons for choosing the 45/70 is; if it's more than 300 yrds off the river, I'm not packing it, (2 back operations dictate it) and wondering around sounding like dinner (I've been stalked while bow hunting by a mountain lion ) I've had run ins with the dark side. Funny thing is in all my years of hunting up here my worst situations have been with cows with calfs. Anyway thanks for the input guys. I'll buy a box and see how they perform on the local squirrel population.

  16. #16

    Default .45-70

    You just described why a good, solid bullet is the absolute requirement for a bear bullet. A bear, especially an amped-up one, is so much more dangerous because they are so much harder to kill at times than just about anything walking. Granted, most are taken with one or two shots, but many are shot multiple times and escape or maul, taking punishment that would normally easily kill anything else in North America. People that don't know or realize this hard fact just can't understand how tough and tenacious a bear can be. A bear's metabolism is such it can maul or kill you with fatal wounds that would take down normal prey. Nay-sayers can balk and talk trash all they want, but you must be prepared for a bear encounter. You have about as much a chance getting killed by a bear as being hit by lightning, but how many sane folks will stand in an open field in a thunderstorm? Any sane person would take precautions, as anyone going into bear country should. A .45-70 is a good companion with the right bullets. I have heard both ways about those leverrevolution rounds, but have not fired any or seen thm fired at game, so I won't comment on their effectiveness.
    I see people carrying 300 grain HOLLOWPOINTS up here in their .45-70's. That is a whitetail deer round. Use good roundnose in 350 to 425 grains, either hard-cast or jacketed loaded to .45-70 specs and it then becomes a danged good bear round.
    This is one cartridge whose paper ballistics are anemic but in reality is a serious hunting round for Alaska. Just be careful and don't try to hot-load it to make it a .458 Magnum-class round. I have a ,45-70 Marlin Guide Gun and just love it. I reload my own rounds, as I have been reloading since 1975, and know what I am loading.
    Now just why in the hell do I have to press "1" for English???

  17. #17
    Member nibenza's Avatar
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    Default

    Thanks HAWKEN,

    The reason for me buying the gun is that I can bring down my quary and stop anything in it's tracks should I happen upon it. I know there are other, some say more reasonable ways of accomplishing the objective but you said it right, I love the way the gun feels in my hands while hunting. As I said I use to hunt with a 300 mag but once I got a 45/70 in my hands I fell in love. My hunting buddies laughed untill I showed them the power and quickness. But being the loyalists they are they will keep the 300's. We have a pact, they'll take the long distance shots and I'm first when we are beating the brush.

  18. #18
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    Default a really good bullet..

    If one wants a really good compromise between penetration and expansion, one needs to get a box of Kodiak bonded 405 grainers and load them over 48 grains of R7. They are the ticket! Shot a moose last year at about 80 yards, recovered the bullet under the hide of opposite shoulder. busted bones, a .75" hole and almost NO shed metal. Now THAT'S performance out of my .45-70!

  19. #19

    Question 45-70

    I'm a little confused here, but I'm wondering why there is so much negativity about "safely" loading a 45-70 to approach a .458 win mag's performance. Let's say both are in a Ruger #1 rifle. Why is the 45-70 pooh-pahed and the .458 is praised?

  20. #20
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    Default .45-70 vs. .458WM

    Well, if you compare the two cases you will notice a .4" difference for one thing. You just cant stuff that much powder into a .45-70 case! Barnes list for the 45-70 in Ruger #1 a max load of 48 grains of R7 (400 grains X bullet)

    a 400 grainer for the .458 WM can take 65 grains of R7. I might feel comfortable about pushing the limits of a 45-70 in Ruger#1 or even the Marlin, but realisticly, what's the point? Speed doesnt kill. In heavy, tough bone and muscle..penetration and controlled expansion from heavily constructed bullets does!

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