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Thread: Reaming forcing cone... advice?

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    Default Reaming forcing cone... advice?

    I just got my hands on a forcing cone reamer. I'm gonna ream my two Ruger 45 Colts to 11 degrees. Any advice from anyone who used the Brownell tool? I understand it doesn't take much.

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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    I just got my hands on a forcing cone reamer. I'm gonna ream my two Ruger 45 Colts to 11 degrees. Any advice from anyone who used the Brownell tool? I understand it doesn't take much.
    I am glad you are the guinea pig on this one Perry! Just kidding. From what I have heard and read you just go real slow and check it often.

    Can't wait to put mine under the knife. Just got the SBH hammer installed and working on my Vaquero and adjusted the trigger pull down a bit as well.

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    It's so easy to do that it's a little scary. The first one I did, I came away with the feeling "Is that all there is to it?" I got my tool back in the 1980's when they were comparatively cheap and have done a lot of revolvers since. It must be really well made, because it still looks brand new.

    On my first attempt I just used the rear or entrance of the existing cone as a guide, stopping when the tool "bottomed out" at the back of the cone. That preserved the size of the factory opening while significantly lengthening the cone at the front, where it needs to be. Probably habit, but it would make my skin crawl a little to take out so much that I started enlarging the entrance of the barrel.

    Is it worth the "trouble" and expense? No other way to fly in my book, especially if you're shooting a whole lot of swaged wadcutters as I was in the model 19's and 686's in those days. Within the bounds of those "target" velocities, it virtually eliminated leading with swaged bullets while improving or at least not deteriorating accuracy, depending on the individual gun. I wasn't having trouble with leading in any of my 44's with the hardcast or #2 alloy I usually shot, but on the rare occasion I also shot swaged with light loads in those guns, it was nice to have the leading issue gone.

    No issue or loss of accuracy at all with jacketed bullets in any gun I've ever done.

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    Thanks BrownBear. I did my cylinder throats a while back. No biggie. That's what I wanted to hear about the opening of the cone. It sounds like it's pretty obvious when I get to that point. I read the directions .... and it says the "rear most part of the chamfered area" should be no larger than .020 over the diameter of the boolit.

    Broncoformudv, ya, one of the guinea pig guns will be my SBH Bisley Hunter. Oh well, it's not like they only made 279 of them..... oh wait they did

    I guess I'll do the Redhawk first. Then I'll be an expert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    I guess I'll do the Redhawk first. Then I'll be an expert
    That sounds like a page out of my own book.

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    BTW-

    At the time I got mine I talked to a renowned pistol-smith about that .020 recommendation. He said it was in there on behalf of the people using the reamer to put forcing cones in custom barrels made from scratch with no forcing cone. He said that in fact he didn't know of a single factory barrel that was turned out with a forcing cone that small, so using the base of the existing cone as a guide gave you a little margin of error.

    He also said that in fact, not opening up to the base of the cone created kind of a "2-stage" throat that didn't really cut down on leading. I tried stopping short of the base on one 686, but couldn't tell any difference from the other 686 I did at the same time. Never went back and re-reamed the one, and to this day I have to look at the serial #'s to tell them apart.

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Care to educate the ignorant on the benefits? Both forcing cone and cylinder throats? I have an idea, but I'll sit back and listen...

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    Question: For my education, I have Carbide Forcing Cones. I assume that a reamer will not cut Carbide, only a diamond grinder.......???

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    Carbide is a whole nether ball game. This could only be an insert of carbide in another material no barrel or other object like a cylinder could be made of solid carbide with out huge expense, that would be to prone to fracture in the first place. If you have to open up the carbide, you cannot do it with a cutter, it takes silicone carbide to grind it to a bigger size.
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    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Perry how did the project go?

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    Quote Originally Posted by broncoformudv View Post
    Perry how did the project go?
    Piece of cake actually. I took it slow. This thing really cuts. I took a resized case, flared it until I got the OD to .472 (.020 over boolit diameter) and used it as a gauge to measure the forcing cone. The SBH had a tighter/shallower forcing cone than the RH. As a side note...It also had tighter cylinder throats as well. I slowly reamed and measured until I could just barely get the lip of the case into the forcing cone and then called it good. They are nice and shiny and look pretty darn smooth. I'm confident that both guns now have an 11 degree forcing cone and entrance is .020 over boolit diameter, or within .001. From what I've read those are the specs we want. Hopefully this basement "gunsmith" didn't screw things up too bad! I'll be shooting them tonight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    Care to educate the ignorant on the benefits? Both forcing cone and cylinder throats? I have an idea, but I'll sit back and listen...
    No? OK......

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Question: For my education, I have Carbide Forcing Cones. I assume that a reamer will not cut Carbide, only a diamond grinder.......???
    In what revolvers do you have carbide forcing cones?? Never heard of that! They would be smooth and if to true dims, would be the cats meow but wonder if they could break??
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Default A newbies response....

    Quote Originally Posted by hunt_ak View Post
    Care to educate the ignorant on the benefits? Both forcing cone and cylinder throats? I have an idea, but I'll sit back and listen...
    Here's what I know in a nutshell as best as I can describe it, I think...

    It starts with bore diameter and slugging the bore. In my Ruger 45 Colts the bore diameter is .451. The cast boolit needs to be .001 larger for best accuracy, so, .452. Which means the cylinder throats should be .4525 so the boolit is guided nicely into the forcing cone and not sized down by to tight of a throat. Ruger 45 throats can be all over the place depending on how old the gun is. Anyway, my RH throats were about .4515 and the SBH were .451 with one being about .450 if I remember right. This means the .452 boolit was getting sized down before entering the barrel and then the shaved of lead gets blasted down the barrel. This results in poorer accuracy and leading, which of course is not desirable either.

    If a barrel and cylinder is perfectly in line I suppose you would't even need a forcing cone. But, in all but high dollar custom guns that are line bored they aren't. The forcing cone sort of makes up for less than perfect alignment and guides the boolit to the rifling. Ruger forcing cones are 5 degrees, an 11 degree forcing cone allows the boolit to be guided in a gentler/smoother fashion into the barrel. This can help accruracy as well and stop the gun from "spitting" lead that is shaved of when the boolit hits the forcing cone. Then, within the world of the pistoleros I understand there are differences of opinion when it comes to forcing cone depth, angle, etc. But, for all practical purposes it is most widely accepted that an 11 degree forcing cone works best for cast boolits. Particularily wadcutters and SWC/Keith style boolits.

    Whew, I think I just got a brain cramp on that one Others can fill in the blanks, correct me if needed and educate us further. I've only been doing this a couple years and am still learning. It's pretty darn fun that's for sure.
    Last edited by Snyd; 05-13-2010 at 12:12.

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    Default S&W modifications & lubes

    I shoot a lot of cast bullets in my S&W revolvers and haven't really had any issues with leading except in an old 5 screw Mdl 28 .357. I shoot primaily old wheel weight metal with the NRA classic alox/beeswax lube.

    I thnk some of the new harder lubes just don;t do the job as well as the solfter NRA formula. The hard lubes are great on bullets sold in bulk boxes by commerical guys and don't soot up the gun as bad - but as far as effectiveness at preventing leading I think they come up a bit short.

    I've actually got one of the Brownell tool "kits" for the forcing cones and squaring the barrel but I've never really had much cause to use it. Perhaps S&Ws are machined a tad better than Rugers or perhaps I just got lucky and got some exceptional guns.
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    Perry, how large a caliber will that cutter do? 480???
    Vance in AK.

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Thanks for the explanation, Perry. Basically, you aren't wanting to resize your bullets before they enter the rifling. Why the inconsistencies with manufacturing, do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    In what revolvers do you have carbide forcing cones?? Never heard of that! They would be smooth and if to true dims, would be the cats meow but wonder if they could break??
    Freedom arms if specified on the order sheet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vance in AK View Post
    Perry, how large a caliber will that cutter do? 480???
    The one I used was for .38 up to .45 caliber. They make others sizes though.

    tvfinak- I think the smiths have an 8 degree forcing cone.

    hunt_ak- Many reasons for inconsistencies. Who knows all the reasons though. Ruger does 5 degree forcing cones, smith does 8. Ruger 45 Colt throats are pretty consistent now. I guess there was a time when they were to big. Ruger changed the way they drill cylinders now so that all six are the same. My RH throats were all very consistent. 44 mag throats are usually pretty good. A "refined" gun will cost more. Guns are made to shoot any factory ammo. Off the shelf they shoot jacketed no prob. These "fixes" optimize them for cast. Enough of my ramblings...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aklefty View Post
    Freedom arms if specified on the order sheet.
    Thanks, I never knew that. I have a few without the carbide cones.
    Last edited by Murphy; 05-14-2010 at 17:16.
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