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Thread: K98 Mauser or variants?

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    Member 2dawgs's Avatar
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    Default K98 Mauser or variants?

    I've been thinking about getting one in 8mm. Do any of you have any experience with them? Is good ammo available (for hunting)? Do they shoot (I don't like safe queens), or is it a crap shoot to find a good one. Thinking about going through Mitchell's Mausers. I really like "old school" rifles.

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    Ammunition is available from Norma, S&B and a few others but none in the US that load to the potential. Factory ammo had a 198 gr bullet at 2750fps.

    You just need to look for a rifle with a bore in good condition, and check the crown. This is easy, just ask the seller how the crown looks. If you get a nice one you can always have the crown counterbored.

    I like the early ERMA k98's, and won't buy one made after 1938. Try to find one with a solid stock, but if you find a good one with the laminated stock, you can always find a solid stock to switch in.
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    Mitchells is a rip off. Try Gun Broker, if you are going to buy on look for a good bringback. Expect to pay the price.

    Ive always wanted an Imperial (pre 1915) but prices for nice ones have skyrocketed.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dawgs View Post
    I've been thinking about getting one in 8mm. Do any of you have any experience with them? Is good ammo available (for hunting)? Do they shoot (I don't like safe queens), or is it a crap shoot to find a good one. Thinking about going through Mitchell's Mausers. I really like "old school" rifles.
    My favorite is a Serbian model 24/47 (also identified with a Preducze 44 stamping). These 98's are exclusively based on the m1924 that was originally designed by FN in Belgium. The thing I like best is that they are an intermediate length action which is about a quarter inch shorter than the Bruno VZ24. They are better suited to length of the 8x57 cartridge that they were designed for and are nicer in conversion to 308 length cartridges. However the one I have is in excellent condition including the bore and it's staying 8x57.

    During WWII the Germans ransacked the factory which produced the 24/47's and stole the tooling used to build them. The factory did get back on its feet but production cost had to be cut. Hence the introduction of the M48(a cruder version of the 24/47). Many of the first M48's were not made to the tolerances of the 24/47's and the quality and smoothness wasn't on par either. Then along came the M48a & M48b. The tolerances on these were very good and the ones that I have messed with are as smooth as my 24/47. The big difference between the M48 and the M48a&b is where they made the cuts in production costs. In the M48 the sacrifice was made in machining tolerances while in the later M48a&b the tolerance are there but they wear a stamped trigger guard/floor plate assembly where as the M48's were milled.

    Whatever 8x57 you get, make sure that the numbers on the bolt and receiver match. Many times these surplus guns are sold in runs where the numbers don't match. These numbers being miss matched can mean head space issues.

    I'll start some debate now with the following statement! The 8x57 when loaded to its potential and shot in guns that realize that potential (98 mausers)they will accomplish anything that the 30-06 can accomplish!

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    I have a friend who bought a 100th anniversary 98 in Germany when they came out. It is like an early Sporterized rifle from Europe but they were made that way at the factory. It has a very thin half stock, a set of block sights on islands and the very cool Mauser banner on the front ring. They were not drilled for a scope and the bolt wouldn't clear any way. But they are slightly more hunter friendly if you don't mind using irons, as of course it would be sacrelidge to drill and tap one. And of course it is an 8x57, he has used it to take all manner of both African and NA big game.

    If I was looking for one thats what I'd look for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I have a friend who bought a 100th anniversary 98 in Germany when they came out. It is like an early Sporterized rifle from Europe but they were made that way at the factory. It has a very thin half stock, a set of block sights on islands and the very cool Mauser banner on the front ring. They were not drilled for a scope and the bolt wouldn't clear any way. But they are slightly more hunter friendly if you don't mind using irons, as of course it would be sacrelidge to drill and tap one. And of course it is an 8x57, he has used it to take all manner of both African and NA big game.

    If I was looking for one thats what I'd look for.
    I have seen variants of those too( not anniversary issue). Bruno used to turn some of those out in different degrees of sporter versions. I once had one in 06 that was stamped Kodiak on the side of the receiver and nothing else. It had a very nice birds eye hard maple stock on it. Shoulda kept it! How many times have I said that!

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    HHhhhmmmm.....

    Samco Global www.samcoglobal.com has m98/29 Persians. Absolutely fantastic. Bought mine better than 12 years ago, an unissued rifle. You won't believe the quality.

    Loaded to potential, the 8mm will do slightly better than the '06 due to a larger area for the gas to act upon. And you can get 250 grain bullets for it too.

    And just to turn up the acquisitive juices, on 11/02/06 (I have this logged in my book), I received a GEW 98, 8x57mm dated 1916, and all matching numbers, with no import stamp, un-messed with, un-bubba'd in any way...and did I mention all-matching numbers...for the grand total sum of $435.99 which included shipping. Guess who I bought this from? Yes, from our very own WWGuns while they were on Homer Drive. Bore is perfect, crown is factory new, a perfect example of WWI technology. And no, I won't sell it or even fire it. It's just too valuable to me now.

    Do check Gunbroker or Auction Arms. Sometimes Gunsamerica has a deal. Just start your searches with k98 1934 and work up to 1938. Then you can try s/27 or if you are up to it, ERMA and dig through the hits. Also k98k will land you 15 pages, but stay in there, the nice ones are sold to those who dig. Another to try is simply 98/22 or Brno to find an unprefixed or A or B prefix Brno. Always try to find a matching numbered one if you can. You may have to wait, but the 98/22's weren't used in war, so the mechanicals are almost always in near mint condition.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    I am partial to K98 Dated 1937... Just like 'em w/ all the various markings of transition year.

    Two I fire most are more rare BSW 1937 and a sweet Sauer 1937.

    Both are 3" or better @ 100 meters with irons using full-house ammo.

    The sight graduations will me most meaningful with the cartridge's working potential (Grain/velocity).

    Norma hunting ammunition is excellent in a good K98.

    These are good rifles & in 8x57 ~ I'd be comfortable anywhere in Alaska.

    All that stuff about "matching #s" is total B$$...

    Good looking, in spec, good condition parts, cleaned up and fitted properly are all that is required. Knowledgeable gunsmith to look it over or/and understanding of these rifles is all you need.

    Matching #s are nice (often increase collector interest) ----- but do not guaranty anything!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Richardson View Post
    All that stuff about "matching #s" is total B$$...

    Good looking, in spec, good condition parts, cleaned up and fitted properly are all that is required. Knowledgeable gunsmith to look it over or/and understanding of these rifles is all you need.

    Matching #s are nice (often increase collector interest) ----- but do not guaranty anything!!!
    Well ya see Brian, you contradicted yourself.
    1st, a matching numbered rifle always increases value, not "often", but always. 2nd, And if the numbers match, the rifle will be "fitted properly".
    Maybe you haven't a collection of a size yet to have received a few that didn't "fit properly", and had to buy 10 bolts to try to get proper headspace, then negotiate the return. Since I have, I can unequivocally say it is better to have the numbers match than not.
    This isn't to say you can't make one up, as I unfortunately had to do, but it will cost less in the long run. And I have purchase many that have been complete mix-masters of numbers and they work well. But then the value is lower.
    So in the end, matching numbers are nicer. I did recommend that a fellow try to find matchers, not that it was necessary or would guarantee anything. A careful reading of the posts are in order before foolishly blathering that the recommendation is "total B$$".
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    I took several animals in Idaho using a M48 8mm and it did a great job on deer. The gun in it's military garb was a bit heavy, but did the job.

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    Matching #s are nice (often increase collector interest) ----- but do not guaranty anything!!!
    Matching numbers make the gun collectable, elsthwile it is a shooter.

    And just to turn up the acquisitive juices, on 11/02/06 (I have this logged in my book), I received a GEW 98, 8x57mm dated 1916, and all matching numbers, with no import stamp, un-messed with, un-bubba'd in any way...and did I mention all-matching numbers...for the grand total sum of $435.99 which included shipping. Guess who I bought this from? Yes, from our very own WWGuns while they were on Homer Drive. Bore is perfect, crown is factory new, a perfect example of WWI technology. And no, I won't sell it or even fire it. It's just too valuable to me now.
    I think I remember that one, I was too broke having bought a Swedish M41B a month or two before....good score. Keep an eye on our GB auctions for other such goodies.

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    Guys, thank you for all the reponses. I have learned more in 10 posts, than in 1 1/2 days search. I think I'll go ahead and get one. Nitro thanx for the link. Persian sounds interesting... I have family heritage in ww2 Germany, so I'll look that direction for a collectable, but maybe a Serb/FN/or Persian for a shooter.I know a few guys that have M48 Serbs and love em. Gonna take a Moose with one this fall...it's gonna happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2dawgs View Post
    Guys, thank you for all the reponses. I have learned more in 10 posts, than in 1 1/2 days search. I think I'll go ahead and get one. Nitro thanx for the link. Persian sounds interesting... I have family heritage in ww2 Germany, so I'll look that direction for a collectable, but maybe a Serb/FN/or Persian for a shooter.I know a few guys that have M48 Serbs and love em. Gonna take a Moose with one this fall...it's gonna happen.
    S&G guns is another good place to check!

    Sorry Brian but I will strongly disagree with you on the matching numbers issue. I own but one set of go/no go gauges and they are in 8mm. If you shoot nothing but the corrosive Berdan primed military throw away stuff the issue is less apparent. If you reload and want some amount of case life then you don't want case separation after a couple loadings so it's important that the head space be correct. Many of the mausers sold with miss matching numbers will have a disclaimer saying to have the gun checked by a competent gunsmith before firing, followed by all sales are final. They do that for a reason. I have a couple of miss matched guns in the basement that are so far off that on one you can hardly chamber the round because it is short head spaced( I won't fire that one). When I force the bolt closed on it shines up the shoulder drastically. The other leaves a very bright shinny ring around the base when fired and sometimes the case will actually crack around the base on its initial firing! Thats because it is stretching because the headspace is off.

    Stay away from the Turkish mausers unless you have someone that knows mausers look at it first. Some were good and same were pretty hodge podge!

    Sorry, I hope I didn't sound too dogmatic but it does matter!

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    Mitchells is a rip off.
    Just curious why you say this? Are they overpriced, rifles not in the condition they describe, etc? I'm certainly not saying you're wrong. Just trying to get educated because I was considering blowing some of my deployment money on another gun to add to my WWII collection (I'm not super specific with dates, models, etc).

    Thanks.

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    Look at J& G Sales online. They have several mausers types for sale and will ship to any FFL nearby.

    http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/c/c-r-guns/cPath/290

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    I own a great number of FN actioned rifles all of them custom made, I have a number of bare FN actions around the shop. Except for vary few it's all the Mauser type actions I want. I do have a half dozen HUsQvarna actions also, and for certain applications I think they are all fine. They all need to have the firing pin safeties added before you hunt them. (three position wing safeties).
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by c04hoosier View Post
    Just curious why you say this? Are they overpriced, rifles not in the condition they describe, etc? I'm certainly not saying you're wrong. Just trying to get educated because I was considering blowing some of my deployment money on another gun to add to my WWII collection (I'm not super specific with dates, models, etc).

    Thanks.
    Most of theirguns are "arsenal refinshed" whech means they are worth half of what Mitchells sells them for

    Best to take the more difficult route and hunt down something original and correct

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    2dawgs!

    More estate guns showed up at the shop over the weekend. There are a couple of pretty nice 24/47's in the bunch. I know it don't matter but the best one even has matching numbers and a real good bore. It's yours if you want it!

    I can only send it to an FFL holder. So if you can either fax or mail me a signed copy of your most favoritest gun dealers FFL then I'll ship it to them and as long as you qualify in accordance with what they ask of you on a 4473, it's yours. Your dealer may want a small fee for the paper work on his end. Other than that it's free!

    I'll PM you with my address and fax number!

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    You can spend a lot of years researching military Mausers. The GUN BOARDS Military Mauser threads are a good place to look as well.

    My 1st Mauser (1971 for $35) was a Brazilian contract 1935 cavalry carbine. In 7x57mm and made by DWM in Berlin. Those are almost impossible to find now in good shape.

    Some folks are nuts (myslef included) for the Czech made Vz-24 variants. They made them for themsleves and various other countries before WWII, and as an occupied country during WWII. The rifles they made for the Persians are works of art. VZ-24s with original barrels can be found in 7.92x57mm and 7x57mm.

    There is also a group of folks who love the Argentine 1909 variations. Most being made by DWM I think. The only down side is the odd-ball 7.65mm Argentine mauser (also known as Belgium Mauser) caliber.

    The post war Mausers made by F.N. in Belgium for various South American, Arab and African countries are also known to be very good shooters. The Columbian contract rifles in 30-06 and the Morrocan Police Carbines in 30-06 or 308 are pretty nice when you can find them.

    The more modern Yugoslavian made M-48s and M-48As are not a true M-98 size Mauser action. They are an intermediate length action. Sorta like the 1910 and 1924 Mexican contract Mausers.

    Beware that the Spanish, Mexicans, some South American Counties and the Turks had locally manufactured copies of various Mausers. Their quality and value being generally MUCH less than those made by the Germans, Czechs, Belgians and Yugoslavians. (and Swedes if you add the small ring Mausers.)
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brian Richardson
    All that stuff about "matching #s" is total B$$...

    Good looking, in spec, good condition parts, cleaned up and fitted properly are all that is required. Knowledgeable gunsmith to look it over or/and understanding of these rifles is all you need.

    Matching #s are nice (often increase collector interest) ----- but do not guaranty anything!!!


    In response to:

    Well ya see Brian, you contradicted yourself.
    1st, a matching numbered rifle always increases value, not "often", but always. NO THEY DO NOT 2nd, And if the numbers match, the rifle will be "fitted properly". NO - again this does not guaranty anything
    Maybe you haven't a collection of a size yet to have received a few that didn't "fit properly", and had to buy 10 bolts to try to get proper headspace, then negotiate the return. That is your problem (tho not unique dilemmas I'm sure) however not been my experiences Since I have, I can unequivocally say it is better to have the numbers match than not. Say whatever you want - let it all hang out - but you are wrong... nothing I've said remotely contradicts myself
    This isn't to say you can't make one up, as I unfortunately had to do, NOW THIS SOUNDS LIKE CONTRADICTORY but it will cost less in the long run. And I have purchase many that have been complete mix-masters of numbers and they work well. But then the value is lower.
    So in the end, matching numbers are nicer. I would agree here but still proves nothing I did recommend that a fellow try to find matchers, I would agree here but still proves nothing "not that it was necessary or would guarantee anything." SO YOU very apparently AGREE WITH ME... DEBATE OVER A careful reading of the posts are in order before foolishly blathering that the recommendation is "total B$$". Who's 'Blathering' now

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