bullets for sheep
my brother will be using a .308 cal for his sheep hunt, 300wsm. currently he shoots the 150gr nosler ballistic tips extrememly accurate at 3200 fps. he would like to use these bullets, however, he is worried they will destroy a dall's hide. he will have some 180gr nosler e-tips for bear if he needs them.
what bullet would you recommend for sheep? he wants to shoot the most accurate/fastest bullet he can and right now it's the 150 gr. nos. bt. he gets 0.40" 3 shot groups at 100yds consistenetly. will this bullet work well on dall? thanks.
I've shot a few rams with my 300 wsm. I use 180 grain Sierra GameKings. They have a high B.C, are very accurate, cheap, and bullet performance has been very good all the way up to moose and grizzly bears. My 300 wsm also loves 180 grain Barnes TSX, which will probably be my new hunting bullet. My trajectory for the 180 Sierras and 180 Barnes is identical so I have cheap practice rounds with the same point of impact as the more expensive hunting rounds.
I would NOT use a ballisitc tip.
So many folks get caught up in the speed game. Speed doesn't kill. Shot placement kills and the first shot is what counts - period. Use an accurate bullet that will hold together. Learn it's trajectory and point of impact at various ranges, tape a little cheat sheet on the inside of your Butler Creek scope cap, use your rangefinder, and be confident in one shot kills. Of course you could also just get to within 100 yards!! Good luck.
Try the 150 gr Nosler Accubond. They have the same ballistic coefficient and sectional density. Should fly neary identical to the Ballistic Tip. The Accubond is a sturdier bullet with a more reliable controlled expansion.
The ballistic tip should work fine on a thin skinned sheep, but there are alot of horror stories out there about the ballistic tips exploding on impact. Not worth the risk on a tough and expensive sheep hunt.
What would be wrong...
with usin' a frangilbe bullet, like a Core-lockt? single entry, massive tissue damage, & accurate...
Sheep are very easy to kill. My son got his first with a 243 using an old style Hornady spire point. Just use something which won't make too large a hole in the hide.
I hear all kinds of stuff about "premium" bullets but the simple fact is the core0-lockt bullets kill a lot of animals every year. If you shoot any animal in AK with one behind the shoulder it is gonna die. If you like to break shoulders then there is certainly a better choice though on sheep sized game it will certainly do even that, just with a bunch of meat damage. Honestly I would bet that you will get a cleaner, faster kill with a core-lockt than a barns with a behind the should shot on a thin skinned animal like sheep.
Originally Posted by gogoalie
Another thing to consider. A 180 gr. bullet will start out slower than the 150 gr. but will end up shooting just as flat (or flatter) because of the high b.c., plus it will buck the wind better. Speed is good but it ain't everything to consider when loading for long range. My 30-06 really likes the Swift 180 gr. Scirroco II's (spendy though) and Sierra 180 gr. SPBT Gameking (cheap!).
Do not worry about Dall sheep cape damage resulting from your bullets entrance or exit wounds.
Do worry about the cape damage resulting from a ram cartwheeling down a steep and rocky mountain at near-terminal velosity. Many of my 27 kills, both personal and professional, have been made at less than 100 and 200 yards, an easy shot for everybody. And many of those easy kills have rolled and tumbled 500 and 600 yards down the mountain before crashing into the alder brush near the bottom. I have about a 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 "damaged-cape" recovery rate.
1/3 die a clean death with no cape damage other than two holes, one in and one out.
1/3 are recovered some ways down the slope with significant damage and cuts to the mouth, nose, and face. (note the weight of them hornes gets that head free swinging and really slamming into the rocks.) But these cuts are usually easily repaired by a quality taxidermist.
1/3 are recovered with tremondous damage that can not be repaired. Some of the high velosity 500 yards-down-the-mountain-recovered-rams simply have no more nose-mouth-teeth remaining, after slamming into the rocks a few hundred times. The ears are about the only thing undamaged in these situations. These rams are generally not very photogenic.
Yeah, I tend to hunt rugged sheep and goat country.
Do not worry about bullet damage.
Hunt safe. (?)
My goal this year is to get a goat with both horn.
I'll sit and sit and sit waiting for the right flat spot. Although....that might never happen.
I agree a 200+ pound animal flying down the mt. sure does tear things up.
The core-lockt is NOT a frangible bullet. As the name suggests it's a bonded bullet. The lead core is bonded to the jacket. They have been around for a very long time and they work well. They are not as fancy as some of the newer bullets and they have a fairly thin jacket but they are bonded nonetheless. "frangible" bullets are made to come apart on impact (definition below). Most are powdered metal fused together with an adhesive and not meant for game. Airplane hijackers or some CQB, yes.
Originally Posted by gogoalie
I have used the ballistic tips on a number of animals from a 30-06. The largest was a whitetail the smallest an antelope. I used the 180 grainers at about 2700 fps. Based on my experience I would NOT use a 150 gr ballistic tip at 3200 fps. I switched to accubonds after shooting a deer at about 20yds with a ballistic tip. I shot it standing broadside just behind the shoulder. I did not hit the shoulder or any major bones and the bullet exploded. The deer only ran about 10yds and it's heart and lungs were gone but nothing exited the far side or even made it to the far side of the internal cavity. A very small piece of jacket came out on the top of the shoulder facing me and that was it (it was stuck in the hair). The bullet came apart in about 20 small pieces. Complete failure! If the animal had been a little heftier or had a thicker hide, or I hit a bone I doubt it would have gone down.
I load accubonds for deer sized animals and partitions for anything bigger. Speed is not the answer. If your set on 150 grainers at 3200 fps pick one that is very well constructed. Forget the ballistic tips.
Don't worry about the hide, worry about terminal performance.
Frangible bullets (wikipedia)
A frangible bullet is one that is designed to disintegrate into tiny particles upon impact to minimize their penetration for reasons of range safety, to limit environmental impact, or to limit the danger behind the intended target. Examples are the Glaser Safety Slug and the breaching round.
Frangible bullets will disintegrate upon contact with a surface harder than the bullet itself. Frangible bullets are often used by shooters engaging in close quarter combat training to avoid ricochets; targets are placed on steel backing plates that serve to completely fragment the bullet. Frangible bullets are typically made of non-toxic metals, and are frequently used on "green" ranges and outdoor ranges where lead abatement is a concern.
Goat Capes & Hornes
Ya just never know what to expect for a goat, after Mr Billy takes a big round through the boiler room.
Generally speaking, they are spring loaded to go off into the worst possible situation available just before the moment of death. I have had em go off cliffs so high, that if the bullet had not killed em the fall surely would have.
I can count only eight goat kills.....(thinkin here)....
The easily recovered ones were in very late Sept, when the goats in southcentral AK have decended to right above the alder brush line. Those guys fell only a short distance and hung up immediately in the alder brush with no damage.
One goat atop a little knob, did a harmless back flip, and snapped off both hornes. These were recoveded and easily repaired by the taxidermist. One went off a terrible cliff, and lost 1/2 inch of horn, one went off a huge drop-off and somehow both horns were intact.
My biggest billy, a 10 1/2 B&C qualifyer, was on a knife ridge. On our side of the ridge was a series of (many) 10 and 15 foot cliffs. If the goat came our way he would surely have damaged the hornes bouncing down the cliffs. At the shot, Mr. Billy simply laid down and "went-out" in a goat bed on the knife ridge. So after a tiny celebration concerning our good luck we climbed up, which took a good hour! On the back side of the knife ridge was a 100 yard(?) cliff down to the white ice with giant crevasses. If he had launched off the back side he might have been unrecoverable!
So ya just never know with goats. But...if a goat gets cut up on the rocks, the cuts and stiches are easily hidden by the goats long fur.
Ram hair also gets sheared and cut up when tumbling in the rocks. Not much a taxidermist can do with hair that has been sheared and shaved during a tumbling fall. But fortunately, ram horns are super tough as compared to the brittle horns of a goat. I have had two rams that cracked their horns at about the two year growth-ring, and several that have "blounted" the tips during the death-journey down the mountain. Most every ram ends up with a few rock dings on the horns somewhere.
Perhaps another forum member can tell us about horn damage, like an entire horn seperating from its inner sheath, as a result of impact damage.