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Thread: Food for thought-no duck stamp

  1. #1

    Default Food for thought-no duck stamp

    I found it ironic that many of you who consider yourselves subsistence hunters who support the idea of a duck stamp. The duck stamp is a permit to hunt waterfowl. How many of us would consider having to purchase a "permit" to go to the store to buy food? Or use only "traditional means" of transportation to get there? This is really what separates sport from subsistence hunters. If one is truly hunting to feed themselves, then arguably there should be no rules, no limits, no prohibition on weapons. Suggesting that one should limit themselves to some prehistoric methods of take is just plain ignorance. If you believe hunting as it relates to subsistence is a "privilege", you lack the basis understanding of what true hunting and gathering is really about. Feeding yourself without government interference is a basic human right. Not something to be controlled by others. I suspect opposition to purchasing a "permit' to eat is based more on principle than cost. The only thing debatable here is whether or not an individual really needs to subsist off the land. Would you let others decide that for you?

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    I have a sled load of Geese and stamps. Gotta nap, and go back............

    This is "Food for thought" and tatstey, but remeber , everyone likes the flavor a little differently...some like it Salty, or hot, or frozen...~~LOL!!~~~

    I dont mind supporting a program via the Feds tax to sustain and expand habitat of the birds Im hunting for food. Its my way of giving back and not just taking the resourse that I and you depend on.

    I can afford it. I can afford the license as well.


    Our structure of govornment dosent include Hunting in the Bill of Rights, regrettably I think, nor is hunting mentioned in the Second Amendment, as well.
    The law is that I have a stamp, and way before there was a law saying I had to do so, I was doing anyway.
    If a guy cant afford the stamp, dont buy one. The State one is free, they have an 800 number and will mail you one at their expense.
    If , in some form of protest, you decide not to buy a stamp and hunt anyway, more power to you. Speak out and expose the injustice, try to make a change.
    I dont agree with you, but I will kill people to defend you Right to do so.

    In the Capitalist way of doing things, Hunting licenses, stamps, tags and allotments, drawings and closeures are how its done.
    Already, the limit is VERY generous, and often unlimited

    Using the methods, tools we have now allow a guy to make a **** good living by hunting.
    The Feds have no limits on subsitance hunting of Birds.
    On Fed lands , I can catch 15 Caribou a day........everyday.
    The Fishing we do with gill nets has no limits.
    Subsistance Hunters/Fishers/Gather'rs are the ones that limit themselfs, and knowing my limits, I have a good taime at it.
    If somebody wants to see the resource contenue to be used as it is, then we'd all best work together, and kicking 20$ tward the greater Good of these Geese, while they are south, then I dont mind a bit.


    Its better than tithing at any church.

    Geese at Barrow yet?
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Member AlpineEarl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truesubsistence View Post
    I found it ironic that many of you who consider yourselves subsistence hunters who support the idea of a duck stamp. The duck stamp is a permit to hunt waterfowl. How many of us would consider having to purchase a "permit" to go to the store to buy food? Or use only "traditional means" of transportation to get there? This is really what separates sport from subsistence hunters. If one is truly hunting to feed themselves, then arguably there should be no rules, no limits, no prohibition on weapons. Suggesting that one should limit themselves to some prehistoric methods of take is just plain ignorance. If you believe hunting as it relates to subsistence is a "privilege", you lack the basis understanding of what true hunting and gathering is really about. Feeding yourself without government interference is a basic human right. Not something to be controlled by others. I suspect opposition to purchasing a "permit' to eat is based more on principle than cost. The only thing debatable here is whether or not an individual really needs to subsist off the land. Would you let others decide that for you?
    Hogwash! The stamp is not about charging you for subsistance hunting. Times have changed, there is more pressure on the resource than ever before. Duck stamp fees, hunting license fees and the rest all go to ensure the resource is healthy and available for us and for future generations. The "privilege" or right to subsistance you get to enjoy is funded by small fees you refuse to pay for. You got the arguably part right, nothing else. Feeding yourself without government interference? It's only your right when it does not effect others. Since we all share the resource I don't believe it's too much to ask for all of us to share the burden of managing and protecting it. Subsistance hunters are allowed, and rightly so, special priveleges what you call "sport" hunters are not. Special seasons, higher bag limits, increased access.....and all for a few dollars. What's the problem?

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    Might add ,too, that those folks who purchase food are Tax'd when they earn that $$$ and Tax'd AGAIN when they spend it to buy that food.
    If that isnt Gov. interfereance way beyond paying a tax once for so much more food than that $$ can buy, I dont know what is...........I think were getting the bargin.

    One great thing, the State of Alaska see us all as 'Subsistance Hunters' as we are required , one and all, to bring home the meat.


    Im outta here, have a good week!!
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Thumbs up TS...

    you make some very valid points...thanks for your input...Welcom to the AOD & don't mind the trolls of this board...& don't mind the scapegoaters either, they're just insecure...

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    This is the kind of selfishness that gives subsistence a black eye. The fee for duck stamps is used to conserve the resource and it's only $15....you joined the site and picked "truesubsistence" as a login name to complain about $15? Those who use resources should help pay for their managment. Or is freeloading OK with you?

    When those of us that work for a living to care for our families rather than let someone else pay for it, go to the grocery store, we have to pay for the food. It's not free either. The amount we buy is directly proportional to how much we've earned to pay for it. It's not unlimited. Sounds like you've been mooching too long.

    This ain't 1750...it would be nice not to get up and go to a job everyday, and just hunt & gather with no pesky governments to get in our way. But some day you have to get real. You choose to live where you live, and choose not to have a job. That's fine...but don't ask me to pay for it or b**ch when you have to come up with $15 for the privledge.
    "We're all here cuz we're not all there"

  7. #7

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    If you truly understand what subsistence is, you wouldn't bother arguing habitat preservation, affecting other users, wildlife management, or cost. The question is, "Where and how do I get something to eat today"? I have no freezer, no grocery store, no one else to rely on. My only source of food comes from the woods, tundra, or sea. If I don't kill or gather something today, I go hungry. And tomorrow. And the next day. Do I stop and pause to feed myself because I am concerned about a sport hunter having a season in Texas? Nope. Am I personally responsible for wintering habitat loss? Nope. I'm concerned about feeding myself today. Or, killing enough game to fill the ice cellar. I hope I find enough food to survive winter. Don't care about next year, may not be here. Can any of you relate to that? Me either. Not sure true subsistence exists anywhere.

    The only thing debatable here is whether or not an individual really needs to subsist off the land. Would you let others decide that for you? Who's choice is it?

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    Thumbs down Ak dux

    You equate subsistence with freeloading, plus you equate subsistence with lazy slobs...HAH! couldn't be FURTHER from the truth, just because someone DOESN'T wanna make a wage by punchin' a clock doesn't make them a FREELOADER! This is Alaska, subsistence is a WAY OF LIFE, not a privledge, get over it...subsistence=moocher, AIN'T THAT FRESH!

    Makes me wanna join PETA & HSUS, & the Sierra Club, just to spite you POS whiney ass sport hunters!

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    Quote Originally Posted by truesubsistence View Post
    Who's choice is it?
    It's your choice. You choose your lifestyle.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    But you can pay for a PC and internet......

    Subsistence lifestyle is a choice. You are not a separate country/entity/whatever.

    You are the same as me.

    I sport hunt to eat meat......wait does that make me a subsistence hunter? You have a PC and internet. You are not true subsistence as you claim...

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    Quote Originally Posted by truesubsistence View Post
    If you truly understand what subsistence is, you wouldn't bother arguing habitat preservation, affecting other users, wildlife management, or cost.
    I have no freezer, no grocery store, no one else to rely on. My only source of food comes from the woods, tundra, or sea.
    Do I stop and pause to feed myself because I am concerned about a sport hunter having a season in Texas? Nope.
    Am I personally responsible for wintering habitat loss? Nope. I'm concerned about feeding myself today.
    Or, killing enough game to fill the ice cellar. I hope I find enough food to survive winter. Don't care about next year, may not be here.
    Not sure true subsistence exists anywhere.

    The only thing debatable here is whether or not an individual really needs to subsist off the land. Would you let others decide that for you? Who's choice is it?
    Again, I disagree. I think the people who truly rely on a subsistence way of life understand habitat preservation and management better than most. If they over-use or deplete the resource they are doomed for sure.
    No freezer, no grocery store? A computer, the interwebs and a snow machine though.
    Not concerned about Texas? You should be. Without adaquate habitat in wintering grounds the geese would cease to exist. You should be just as concerned about wintering grounds as you are the wetlands at your back door. Without healthy feeding grounds they would not make it back here.
    Not personally responsible for habitat loss?? A complete cop-out and selfish view. The responsibility rests with everyone and I should think those who claim the ultimate right to use the resource would be at the forefront of its protection. What better steward and spokesman for conservation than one who relies on it for survival?
    I'm sure some do live the ture subsistance lifestyle and I doubt anyone would begrudge them some Geese if their life depended on it. Duck stamp or not.
    Since we are a nation of laws, the decision or choice of who allows subsistence rests with all of us. It defines who is utilizing the subsistence resource and who is a poacher.

    The insinuation that those who disagree do "not truely understand" is simple minded. Dismissing those who do not agree as irrelevant and ignorant does not give extra weight to your argument, it marginilizes you. If you already have all of the answers why post here to debate? You can have a conversation with yourself.

  12. #12

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    I'm probably looking at this the wrong way, but if I was depending on the return each year to feed myself, I think I'd be interested in habitat to not only insure the return of game each year, but also to insure my own survival.

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    "But you can pay for a PC and Internet......" ever hear of free access at libraries & schools?

    "You have a PC and Internet. You are not true subsistence as you claim..."

    See above, but there are exceptions, like Bushrat...& he's a "true" subsistence hunter & fisherman...Oh but I guess, that doesn't pass your litmus test for "subsistence"...

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    Member AlpineEarl's Avatar
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    gogoalie,
    I should have been more clear. I did not mean to use the PC and internet reference as a qualifier for subsistence. I meant it as a reference to the notion that the 15$ stamp is not affordable. I would think if you could afford those things the license fees would be within reach. The arguement of not having to pay is different in my opionion than not being able to pay.

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    Default Alpine Earl

    you do realize that there is a CONCERTED effort to make subsistence illegal, right? Whether it be from commerical fishermen, or commercial hunters...I swear that they'll make berry pickin' a permittable & taxable resource once the find a viable commerical way to extract all the nutrients from the berry to market to the gullible in the L48, China & Japan. Boy this was totally predictable with "The Lorax" Dr. Suess was a GENIUS!

    The PC & INET reference was in response to TRAPPNGUNS...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie View Post
    You equate subsistence with freeloading, plus you equate subsistence with lazy slobs...HAH! couldn't be FURTHER from the truth, just because someone DOESN'T wanna make a wage by punchin' a clock doesn't make them a FREELOADER! This is Alaska, subsistence is a WAY OF LIFE, not a privledge, get over it...subsistence=moocher, AIN'T THAT FRESH!

    Makes me wanna join PETA & HSUS, & the Sierra Club, just to spite you POS whiney ass sport hunters!
    Ya...what taxes do you pay? Do you pay anything for the priviledges you whine about? No. Have you ever done anything for the country? State? Or do you just sit and whine for a living? Don't cry about about how hard subsistence is...hard means manning-up, being responsible and provide the best you can for your family. Not hiding out somewhere blaming "the man" for your failures, insecurity, and thinking the big bad world owes you something. You probably don't make a wage because you can't make a wage.
    Go ahead and join PETA...you're not doing any good for anyone else...but they probably wouldn't want you either. They're nuts, but they don't like worthless freeloaders anymore than anyone else.
    "We're all here cuz we're not all there"

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie View Post
    "But you can pay for a PC and Internet......" ever hear of free access at libraries & schools?
    It's not free. Somebody has to pay for it!
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    What bothers me is that as a college who most likely lives under the poverty line, I don't qualify for any of these subsistence programs. Yet those who live in rural Alaska, who probably make more money than I do, feel a sense of entitlement because why exactly???? The same people who complain about having to pay these fees have no problem benefiting from their results.

    When rural communities stop paying for modern conveniences, I'll listen to their arguments regarding the cost of tags.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogoalie View Post
    See above, but there are exceptions, like Bushrat...& he's a "true" subsistence hunter & fisherman...Oh but I guess, that doesn't pass your litmus test for "subsistence"...
    If Bushrat ever started complaining about the cost of tags, I would expect him to give up his satellite internet in order to afford them. But as it stands, he's not on here campaigning for the same privileges that you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by truesubsistence View Post
    I found it ironic that many of you who consider yourselves subsistence hunters who support the idea of a duck stamp. The duck stamp is a permit to hunt waterfowl. How many of us would consider having to purchase a "permit" to go to the store to buy food? Or use only "traditional means" of transportation to get there? This is really what separates sport from subsistence hunters. If one is truly hunting to feed themselves, then arguably there should be no rules, no limits, no prohibition on weapons. Suggesting that one should limit themselves to some prehistoric methods of take is just plain ignorance. If you believe hunting as it relates to subsistence is a "privilege", you lack the basis understanding of what true hunting and gathering is really about. Feeding yourself without government interference is a basic human right. Not something to be controlled by others. I suspect opposition to purchasing a "permit' to eat is based more on principle than cost. The only thing debatable here is whether or not an individual really needs to subsist off the land. Would you let others decide that for you?

    and where do you get your beans, rice, milk, fruit, lettuce, cereal, butter, etc?

    same place the people in anchorage get it.

    if you shoot a duck and eat it, and the person in anchorage does the same..., what's the difference?

    there is no such thing as sport hunting, it's just a phrase coined by some activists to make people in cities who eat wild game to look like a bunch of trigger happy nimrods. of course, the daily news loves to keep that crap going with their constant editorials glamorizing " subsistence". hilarious.

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