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Thread: What is your opinion of the Alaska Moose Federation?

  1. #1
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    Default What is your opinion of the Alaska Moose Federation?

    Just want to see what people thought of the Alaska Moose Federation?

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Good idea!

    I was introduced to the organization at the last BOG advisory council meeting. It sounds like a good idea as they hope to increase the moose population thru habitat. They have some mine owners using their heavy equipment and such clearing brush that is too high for the moose to browse on. Hopefully to assist the moose and help them through the winters.

    Many people look at a woods and think that it is full of deer or moose. But they do not understand that there is little food for large animals under the tree canopy. Good browse is important.

    It is a start. Lets hope it helps.

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Not so sure...

    Though I respect opposing views on this, it makes me wonder how much is too much? To single-mindedly focus on one species without really understanding the complex interrelationships that exist in an ecosystem seems, well, somewhat short-sighted. There is no question that improvements in habitat and forage will usually result in more moose. But I wonder if we should manage it to this level or just let nature take its course? I have to believe that upturns and downturns in game populations are but one facet of a much larger picture. Monkey around with one piece of this and I wonder what the consequences will be elsewhere?

    We have guys mowing down entire stands of willow so it can be fed to moose during winter! Something just seems wrong with that picture to me. At what point are we simply farming moose?

    Just one man's opinion.

    -Mike
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    Default You're Fired

    Michael,
    So you are all for letting fires burn wherever they go? That is nature's way of resetting the clock on most ecosystems. That would certainly provide better habitat on the Anchorage hillside! Although we are better at letting fires go here than most of the rest of the Lower, we still do a lot of fire suppression. Climax ecosystems are usually much less productive than early stage ecosystems. People the world over realized this long ago and have used fire to "farm" their surroundings and increase productivity.
    Nature does not care what we do. It simply adapts to the conditions it finds. It is people who have an opinion on what is "good" or "bad." Why is it good when a lightning bolt starts a fire, but bad when a property owner does the same thing by bulldozing some trees to make a clearing?
    There have been oil spills going on for millions of years. Go diving in Santa Barbara and you will almost certainly see oil and tar globs everywhere. There are tons of fish and lobster who seem to do well there despite the "pollution" (or is it not pollution since it is natural?) Natural does not mean good. Man-made does not mean bad. Keeping a climax ecosystem from recycling is no more natural or good than having a wildlife group do a controlled burn to improve habitat.

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    Member PatrickH's Avatar
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    Default Moose Federation

    As for the Moose Federation, more power to them! Groups like the Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation and Ducks Unlimited have had incredible success at improving, restoring and preserving habitat to the benefit of those species. Or are they "farming" animals? I don't think the animals care.

  6. #6

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    You just can't let Mother Nature run wild. I believe habitat can be managed more effectively and cheaper, than game populations and people.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Default

    Well Mike i'm gonna have to jump in here real quick. Helping out the moose is great and all. but if we as hunters are going to interject with nature and kill some of it, we're not letting it go naturally anyway, we might as well do what we can to offset what ever we are taking to help with the balance, which is why we hunting hunting regs, to keep stuff from getting shot.
    If we have some tough winters for the moose adn don't help them out, but still want to shoot them next fall...we might as well try to nurish a few along. I'm not talking exsesivly, like dropping hay from airplanes or anything, but knocking down some willows and planting a garden in your yard is just a little something extra that might help.
    or we could just leave it go and complain about how moose numbers are low and how no one wants to shoot all the bears...we already messed it up by moving into their habitat, we might as well do what we can to maintain the habitat that we left them so they could actually make it.
    Can't expect nature to happen if we're there.
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    Default garden

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    ...but knocking down some willows and planting a garden in your yard is just a little something extra that might help.
    Dang BRWNBR! You're gonna make me quit cussin' the moose that seems to find my garden every fall! I guess I am more fond of tenderloin than cabbage. Hence the forum handle.:-)

    -Carnivore
    Everything that lives and moves will be food for you.
    Genesis 9:3

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    ya the women plant the gardens...the men watch them....
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    Default

    All I remember of last year's banquet was that they like to build fences to keep moose off the highways. I enjoyed the banquet but I didn't think too much of the organization, or at least what was presented at the banquet. They gave away a bunch of guns as raffle prizes, though. Wifey won a 338 Savage with a 3-9 scope on it. That made the drive worthwhile!

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    Default don't mess with nature?

    probably already been posted (somewhere), but I have to ask you Mike; where do you stand on predator control? Kind of sounds like you may have Paul (Joslen) or Gordon (Haffer) over to dinner once in a while.
    your comments in the 1st paragraph would fit into any of the many "Compass" pieces either greenie has contributed to the ADN.
    Sweden seems to have a lock on "farming" moose. Until we start harvesting more spike/forks than branch antlered bulls (and start harvesting over 100,000 a year), I think we are a long way from farming them.
    Gary

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    Default both sides

    In defense of Mike, I half to remind all that we may think we know all the results of our actions but often find later that we do not. I'd cite some examples but since it is late will avoid sticking my foot in my mouth. In general, every decision that we make should be carefully thought out. Even then, we usually seem to screw up in the long run. Not saying I disagree about what they're doing. Just saying what we do should be done after lots of debate and carefully thinking. Then when we screw things up we can blame ourselves instead of each other. :-)
    Everything that lives and moves will be food for you.
    Genesis 9:3

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default I like it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnivore View Post
    In defense of Mike, I half to remind all that we may think we know all the results of our actions but often find later that we do not. I'd cite some examples but since it is late will avoid sticking my foot in my mouth. In general, every decision that we make should be carefully thought out. Even then, we usually seem to screw up in the long run. Not saying I disagree about what they're doing. Just saying what we do should be done after lots of debate and carefully thinking. Then when we screw things up we can blame ourselves instead of each other. :-)
    I like that idea; at least it has merit, mixed with a little humor! Let's think very carefully about how this should be done, study on it a few years, pray, meditate some more... THEN screw it up! I like it. It goes with my sick sense of humor! Despite our best efforts, sometimes we just have to shrug our shoulders, shake our heads and start the cycle all over again.

    Probably the other goodie I'm taking away from this thread is the idea of planting some potatoes, cabbage, and carrots.... and shooting a moose in the midst of it all! Talk about a lazy man's moose stew! Just roll it all over into the cook pot and... let's eat!

    Gotta love it!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
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    Default We got beamed down from the starship enterprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    but if we as hunters are going to interject with nature and kill some of it, we're not letting it go naturally anyway,
    We kill nature? Huh?
    BRWNBR............would you please pick the date in the history of the human race at which time we "left" nature. Were we ever a part of it?


    We participate in nature, BR, the same as the bears, wolves, moose, the grass, the trees, etc. Our presence in this world is not WRONG!
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    Default Way Off Base On This One!

    Ever hear of RMEF, QU, DU, QDMA, N***, etc? All single species priority, but mostly enhance habitat for game and non-game wildife. As the Vice Chairman of the National Board of Directors for the Quality Deer Management Association, I can assure you that our 2,500 professional biologists and over 47,000 members manage for non-game wildlife along with whitetail deer. I spend a lot of time on neotropical migrants and breeding songbirds, integrating habitat enhancement for whitetail deer and small game on most of the 600 properties I manage. The Alaska Moose Federation will work with other 501(c)(3) non-profits like the rest of us. You are way off base on this one and you are showing a complete lack of knowledge of how these organizations work. I am personally managing over 1.1 million acres of moose habitat, and also enhancing habitat for grouse, black bears, whitetail deer, and non-game species simultaneously. As for your comment pertaining to ecosystem management - again way off base. Ecosystem management has been responsible for destroying more habitat than any other single factor. Ever heard of the Earth's first park - Yellowstone? 1.4 million acres destroyed by environmentals practicing ecosystem mangement. CaribouHunter

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    Default

    My observation is that most non-profits are started by well-meaning folks. They start raising funds and doing the accounting of the funds, and pretty soon they need to raise funds to pay for the accounting. By no fault of the well-meaning founders, the organization requires the time, energy, and funding and the original cause gets shuffled to the bottom of the deck. How much money does it cost to publish a glittered report to impress people so they'll donate money to fund .....a donation drive, some glossy 8x10 photos, and another glittered report? NRA, AOPA, AMF, they're all the same to me. Inefficient bureaucracies with admirable mission statements.

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Default

    MT, i was refering to this land before we put roads thru it and started our "management" of regulations, refuges and parks. didn't say it was wrong, didn't say i dont like or you shouldn't like it. Just saying that if we intend to destory habitat by development we are already playing a roll we may not like. so knocking down some willows maybe be playing a roll that might just offset the damage we've done.
    Not saying go out and pen them in, farm them, spend state dollars to put feed out, jsut saying if some guy puts some brush on the ground big deal.
    questions arises if thats even legal...is he baiting game with the intention of hunting or viewing it?(page 15 of the regs).
    Just pointing out, we are part of it now and we are the only part that can rationalize....we've destroyed some of it, we fourwheeler some of it, build on it and kill them. I don't really see how airplanes, fouwheelers boat and bulldozers are things that lead to letting "nature" takes its course. We took our course, nature is having to work around us...in some situations. not flat accross the board.

    This may be a topic thats tough in here..the written word only communicates half of what is being said.
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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    I don't really see how airplanes, fouwheelers boat and bulldozers are things that lead to letting "nature" takes its course. We took our course, nature is having to work around us...in some situations. not flat accross the board.
    Whether you believe humans were created divinely, along with everything else, or have evolved thru time, our species has been a part of nature since the beginning. Our abilities have evolved, or were given to us, the same as any other form of life on this planet.
    The empire state building is no different than a beaver hut. The city of Anch. is no different than a swallow colony. There is no imaginary line we cross to enter and leave "nature". We CANNOT leave it. We are PART of it. We don't have to apologize for what we do.
    We cannot destroy things any more than a volcano can. We CHANGE things. We effect ecosystems, the same as a caribou migration does.
    The one thing we cannot effect is time. Time will change what you see around you. Time will change what you, and I, have done.
    If you feel nature has to work around you, then you must feel out of place. But your not. Nature, whatever it is, works with you, and me, and everyone else. Until our species evolves, or is created into, something else, or until we become extinct, nature walks hand in hand with us.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  19. #19
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    ya i see where your coming from. your getting a bit deeper than i was, i see your point.
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  20. #20

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    We need to not lose sight of the fact that we are the top of the food chain.
    Mike
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    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

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