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Thread: 10MM Auto vs. Others

  1. #1

    Default 10MM Auto vs. Others

    With the possible exception of Ruger, it seems big bore magnum revolvers are very over-priced . Of course, demand is a factor too. But, what good is it if you can't afford one? Considering that they probably have paid back ( and then some ) their initial investment long ago, S&W should be making a very nice profit on their stuff. They should be cheaper to produce now because of computerized machining centers, etc. This pricing seems to make the G20 Glock and EAA Witness a practical alternative. Anyone have any comments about their experiences with the EAA Witness full size model in 10MM?

  2. #2
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    Mine has been a good gun, reliable and accurate enough for what I used it for. Although I never shot anything bigger than a ground squirrel with it. I got one shot stops 100% of the time though! Its heavy, especially with a full 15 round mag, I never felt I needed to baby it because it seems so over-built. It doesnt get used much anymore, it got replaced by a longslide 1911.
    I would say the Witness is worth it for the money.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Love my EAA Match 10mm, it's a lot of quality gun for the money.

    Revolver price is no big conspiracy, they are full of little precession parts so more complex to machine and fit than an auto and not as cheap to make. S&Ws are forged then fully machined on inside and out on every surface which takes lots of machine operations, then they are well fit by hand. More machining to do means more machines, tooling, and more US union labor. They are spending a lot more per unit than most would think on disposable carbide cutter inserts alone. Rugers are less money because they are cast and get far less machine work. Rugers are generally a bit stronger and not fit out near as well as S&W but a good working gun for a bit less than a Smith. Smith vs. Ruger is kind of a Lincoln vs. Ford thing, I’m a Ford kind of guy most of the time but dang those Lincolns are cool to have!
    Andy
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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Andy puts it well.

    My opinion, the autos you speak of and big bore revolvers are different animals. A 10 mm auto and a S&W 500 with 4" barrel are like day and night. I own both and they are apples to oranges. I just got a Glock 20 (10 mm) and frankly put, it feels like a toy compared to the S&W 500. I like to think of these type of autos as being "better" for their intended goals. Very seperate yet well defined goals. But to confuse one with the other is quite a mistake.

    One example, the ft/lbs....

    Hot ammo in my G20 is near 750 ft/lbs.

    Hot ammo in my S&W 500 is 2,580 ft/lbs.




    -Dan
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Member BAR300's Avatar
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    Default dont buy a witness

    after just having mine blow up, I'm definetely not a supporter of these guns. the forums are full of stories of cracked slides and frames on the witness'. before I just shrugged it off. Now I know the truth, Witess=junk, there is a reason they are so cheap. I'm going to send mine in to EAA and hope for a waranty replacement, if they fail to come thru with that, then I'll be posting pics and the story here.. basically shooting regular 10mm rounds not the hot stuff, regular factory ammo, 300 rounds total thru the gun. cracked slide in the front, and cracked frame by the safety. I'll never buy one again. Glock is the only way to go IMO if you want 10mm. I had to learn the hard way, you can learn from my mistakes...spend the extra $200 and get a glock.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAR300 View Post
    after just having mine blow up, I'm definetely not a supporter of these guns. the forums are full of stories of cracked slides and frames on the witness'. before I just shrugged it off. Now I know the truth, Witess=junk, there is a reason they are so cheap. I'm going to send mine in to EAA and hope for a waranty replacement, if they fail to come thru with that, then I'll be posting pics and the story here.. basically shooting regular 10mm rounds not the hot stuff, regular factory ammo, 300 rounds total thru the gun. cracked slide in the front, and cracked frame by the safety. I'll never buy one again. Glock is the only way to go IMO if you want 10mm. I had to learn the hard way, you can learn from my mistakes...spend the extra $200 and get a glock.
    That's interesting, I have put over 3K very hot 10mms through my Match and it looks almost new . . . never even a misfire.


    I have a Witness in 45 that has around 8K and is a very long way from falling apart. I had a compact 40 that that I put about 10K through and it's been a friend’s CCW gun since 1999 now, he shoots at least a box a week and reports no trouble. EEA's major downfall is EAA-USA’s lack of service and not Tanfoglio’s quality as I see it.

    Forums are all full of Glock KABOOM too, they all have some issue or another. Got some pix of what happened to yours, I'd like to see it?
    Andy
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    Member BAR300's Avatar
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    Default differences in the guns

    I see you have the Match, which are reputed to be excellent guns. mine was a stock compact 10 mm, with the rounded slide, which no doubt led to the problems. EAA is to my knowledge only putting out guns with the squared slides like yours shows in the photo. I'll post the story and pics when and if EAA makes it right/or doesn't. but for now I'm not a fan of the Witness.

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    Here's a witness that I've had in my posession for a while. I havent fired a witness, but after holding it and dry-firing, it seems like it fits my hand well.

    It has a super long trigger-reach when un-cocked, but that all goes away when you're actually going to shoot it...




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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Good camo job, did you remove the Wonder finish or just go over it?

    Yea the double action trigger is way out there for the first pull. My 45 is the cheap base model with the double action and it works fine in my hands. The 10mm Match in my picture comes with a very good single action only trigger. The single action trigger sits farther back in the guard and does not hook forward like the double so has ample room for a gloved finger.
    Andy
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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    As far as the wonder-finish goes, I'm not sure if its like a Glock where the steel is 'impregnated' with it further down than you think, but I just blasted the frame/slide and then painted it.

    I am pretty happy with how it turned out so far. Its completely re-asssembled now (with a little learning on my part--trigger wasn't right the first time) and I hope to get some better pictures of it with all its guts back in...

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Is the action of the Witness the same as the CZ?

    Are the parts interchangeable?

    They appear to be the same weapons. I noticed that CZ doesn't make a 10mm.

    I have shot a few CZ's and they are very nice hand guns. If they are the same I would have no concerns in buying a 10mm Witness.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Is the action of the Witness the same as the CZ?

    Are the parts interchangeable?

    They appear to be the same weapons. I noticed that CZ doesn't make a 10mm.

    I have shot a few CZ's and they are very nice hand guns. If they are the same I would have no concerns in buying a 10mm Witness.
    Witness is a modified/improved copy of the original CZ72. I'm not sure what they modified and if things will in interchange or not. Tanfoglio says their frame is beefed up from the CZ specs and is slightly heavier. A lot of makers don't offer 10mm mostly because it was thought to be a dead caliber in the US.
    Andy
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