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Thread: Is this ok?

  1. #1
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Is this ok?

    More like, "What's up here?" These are from the lower grain loads (63gr) of RL-19 driving Speer 130gr BTSP's set at 2.875 COL, in .270wsm.
    The brass, Federal Factory 5th time resized and fired(FL sized only),
    Looks like gas blowing back? On the first pic you may be able to see the amt of black right at the head? A fair amt, is this OK?

    Possibly the COL 2.875 is further out than I have set them in the past? Bullet was set in deeper than it's width tho, (about .30 into neck)
    Still well short of the Lands (2.99) Everything else about the brass was pretty dialed in as far as case prep, not annealed yet (?) no signs of cracks in necks, no signs of excess pressure, I fired rounds up to 66gr (w/same COL)and this didn't show except in 63&64gr loads?? Fired some factory rounds also with no sign of this, these were the first through a cold, clean, & dry barrel
    Those are just powder marks that rub off easy, case looks fine after wiping down,
    but seems like a sign of something wierd?
    I'm not sure but it seemed these were marked like this on the top as it came out of the chamber, and it's only on the one side.
    Also possibly I am not FL sizing back enough? (only setting datum line back .001 on Hdsdpce gauge) Chambered in and out easy though





    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  2. #2

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    Could be that with the milder loads, their wasn't enough pressure to seal your brass/neck. Thus it not happening with the higher pressure loads.

    Curious, have you fixed your speed woes?

  3. #3

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    That looks like a pretty classic example of too small charges of a slow burning powder. Where does that charge fall on the range recommended in the manual?

    If that's what's happening the explanation is that the pressures aren't building fast enough or high enough to swell the case (obturate) and seal the chamber before the gases really start to build. Basically, there's less resistance around the case than pushing the bullet down the bore, so briefly the gases follow the path of least resistance until the pressures build a little more and seal the case into the chamber, and the bullet headed down the bore becomes the path of least resistance.

    If that's not a real low end load, then you've got other problems I can't diagnose.

    In either case, no, it's not okay. Downright unhealthy as a matter of fact, to have those hot gases coming back toward you.

  4. #4
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Yep, lighter end they were

    That makes sense, they were on the light end of the book loads, 63gr as I recall were one gr up from the start load of 62, with 66 being the max

    Thanks,

    haven't really got the speed woes solved yet, for these Speer 130's and RL-19 I had an avg of 2894 for 63 gr (book says 3097) and 2935fps avg over five rounds at 66gr (book 3241) for Rl-22 at 66gr I got 2935 avg and the Speer book says I should get 3228, I'm using CCI 250's

    Seems everything is 200-300 low, except for Barnes 110gr TTSX I did get flying at 3494 at the max book load of 67.5gr IMR4350, can't remember the book # for those but I think that was right up there.

    Can't figure it out unless it is just to go higher than Max, am getting no Hi pressure signs as of yet, some good accuracy tho and not sure I want to start wearing out my throat for the speed, What do you think?? Other ideas, Fed 215's instead maybe?

    Fired some Federal 150gr Fusion Factory loads and they were hitting 3055fps for average over ten rounds (the box says 3080fps at muzzle)
    I'm gonna pull one to see how much was in there for kicks
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  5. #5
    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Default

    Looks like it could be low pressure. As mentioned the case isn't sealing the chamber.

    Another thought...Did you recently clean your bore and leave the chamber wet? It looks like there could have been solvent in there too.

    You didn't focus your pics on the primer but the edges look unaffected. They are still nicely curved on the edges and showing no pressure issues.

    However, the picture of the one single case has what appears to be a bulged spot below the "W" in WSM that could result in case head separation. Have these cases been reloaded several times?

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    Default

    [QUOTE=kodiakrain;718527] On the first pic you may be able to see the amt of black right at the head? A fair amt, is this OK?



    /QUOTE]

    What do you mean by the above?

    You're not sayin you have black/leaking around the primer are you?

    If not, you can ignore this.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  7. #7
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Not around Primer

    No Smitty, there is no leaking around the primer and it looked good, I am referring to the black (is it carbon) underneath the rim (right off the "N" on the "ReloadiNg Log" background, underneath the .270 it is black and the side underneath the "M" of WSM is clean). The rim has trapped some carbon just on that side though. Does that make sense?

    Marshall, yes they were fire formed from Factory rounds and Full length sized five times for Six Fires so far,

    It isn't a bulge you are seeing, but does look like a hot spot(?) It rubbed right off easily, Brass not stained by heat or stretching.

    And also, as far as solvent in there, I use a Bore Snake every 5-7 rounds when at the range, sometimes I run some Hoppes #9 on it only on the bristle part which is followed by two feet of dry fat cloth so I figure it is pretty dry, and I pull it through two times dry after once with solvent so pretty sure the barrel is dry but it possibly could have solvent in the throat that does not get dried out by the snake?

    Probably getting a little anal there but I need something to do while the barrel is cooling down some (heh heh) maybe I should stop using the solvent? This WSM does tend to heat up a bit, I am probably overkilling it with the cleaning, tho
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakrain View Post
    No Smitty, there is no leaking around the primer and it looked good, I am referring to the black (is it carbon) underneath the rim (right off the "N" on the "ReloadiNg Log" background, underneath the .270 it is black and the side underneath the "M" of WSM is clean). The rim has trapped some carbon just on that side though. Does that make sense?
    Can't see it, can't tell, might not know, if I did.

    You shouldn't have carbon on the case past the neck. If you do, the case isn't sealing. In your case, I dunno why.

    I've never seen that, bad like that. I hesitate to speculate.

    It may be something peculiar to the Short Fat Case design, that has thicker brass than a regular 270. ?????

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  9. #9
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default No problem today

    Ran out and fired 20 more today, exact same stats all the way except progressively higher powder loads, No Problems (as in, none of the carbon marks as in the above pics)

    I did have a three 64gr loads for sighters, they came out clean. I guess one difference is that they were in Neck Sized brass today. All went well as far as pressure signs or this neck not sealing issue

    I'm thinking either they were low powder loads in FL sized brass that was somehow not sized back enough? Man, I'm just guessing here, but I noticed the headspace measurements for this lot were only set back .oo1 some came out the same as they went in to the sizer

    Does that make sense, I set the FL die to the instructions (hadn't done it in a while as am mostly NS sizing) screwed it down to touching the case holder then pulled ram down and screwed the die in another 1/4 turn, so it felt like it was "Camming over", locked it in and FL sized and they were barely getting set back. Headspace gauge (RCBS) read some as the same, before and after sizing? They still chambered fine so I figured it was OK, could that be a problem?
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  10. #10

    Default

    Sounds like you're on track now.

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