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Thread: goodbye ALASKAN SPORT HUNTERS

  1. #1
    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default goodbye ALASKAN SPORT HUNTERS

    as listed in another post by another forum member, the town of hope got it's go ahead for subsistence hunting today. they join cooper landing and ninilchik in basically getting one over the rest of us living here on the kenai peninsula (or now-kenai penitentury) considering all my neighboors -in all dirrections- have surrounded me with they're federal right to hunt and removed mine.

    i know, i know.........i'm just a guy in soldotna and what do i know........... i know enough that i wanted to offer my condolences when for when your ready-

    i have bought thousands of sympathy cards and will gladly send you one when you loose your hunting to your alaskan neighboors donw the road from you. subsistence is growing all over the roads and 99% of hunters don't even know what a subsistence hunting reg's book is.

    send me a PM with your name and address when you discover your hunting opportunity is gone from subsistence road hunters (your neighboors) who just could make it without eliminating your chances afield.

    seriously, i'll send you a card

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    yes I believe hunting for food should come before hunting for sport.Every hunter I know is a rural meat hunter.Don't really sport fish ether

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    yes I believe hunting for food should come before hunting for sport.Every hunter I know is a rural meat hunter.Don't really sport fish ether
    The "sport" hunting isn't a title any of us want. It is one that is slapped on us based on where we live. I hunt moose and caribou for meat to feed the family but because I live in Palmer I can't "subsistence" hunt for them I must "sport" hunt. If I lived in Chickaloon, hope, cooper landing, Sunrise or Talkeetna then I could be a subsistence hunter. Thanks to the state I can subsistence fish the PU fishery though I have a feeling that is going to be stripped away as well in the future.

  4. #4

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    One solution is to move. Most likely you moved to where you live now because you thought it was better than where you lived before.

    We have land and a few homes for sale here in Hope, and in Sunrise, Alaska. There is NO employment, but it is a wonderful place to live. There is some employment in Girdwood, Alaska which is about 52 miles away, and some do make the daily drive.

    The Kenai Borough is going to be selling by lottery 27 or 28 tracts of land here for below market value hopefully this summer. I am going to have to subdivide my land into smaller tracts to find buyers. There is not much land here, and there is one person who has bought very nearly all of the land fronting on Six Mile Creek, BOTH sides.

  5. #5

    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    One solution is to move. Most likely you moved to where you live now because you thought it was better than where you lived before.
    So what happened to the Nomadic Lifestyle? Should a person have to live in a stick house to hunt?
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  6. #6
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    So what happened to the Nomadic Lifestyle? Should a person have to live in a stick house to hunt?
    Much of the interior was nomadic but churches put a end to it for most things. In the SE the fish camps were often just a mile or two from the main village. Most rural area s pray the chain stores and fast food of the big cities stay away which is a big mind set difference.

  7. #7

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Much of the interior was nomadic but churches put a end to it for most things. In the SE the fish camps were often just a mile or two from the main village. Most rural area s pray the chain stores and fast food of the big cities stay away which is a big mind set difference.
    Well....according to the FEDS, the fish camps for the residents of Ninilchick were up on the upper reaches of the Russian River and they they used to take Rainbow Trout with traps and net, when they had Steelhead and Salmon at their back doors. Course there is no evidence to support the notion, but they got the right to do it instated in Federal Law anyway. I could cite many more instances of this being played out, all within walking distance to the "chain stores and fast food".
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default absoultely

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    The "sport" hunting isn't a title any of us want. .
    and were not subsistence........because to be subsistence... we'd have to eat what we harvest.

    alaskan reciprocity is gone. hooray for the divider's and conquer's of us all!

    good bye sport hunter now.........good bye subsistence later.......good bye all hunting.

    i will move out there, and so will all my friends and brothers. we'll kill everything before we get the population to 2500. then will move on until we've ruined it for everyone else

  9. #9
    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Thumbs down see nomad

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Much of the interior was nomadic but churches put a end to it for most things. In the SE the fish camps were often just a mile or two from the main village. Most rural area s pray the chain stores and fast food of the big cities stay away which is a big mind set difference.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomad

    by far the oldest hunting and gathering technique in the world, somehow alaska has it covered?

    hope is closer to anchorage than i am by far. that is in direct conflict with the difference in mentality to which you refer-

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    The whole subsistence thing is BS, have a hunting season for everyone, same time same bag limits for all. Anything less is discrimination pure and simple dont care where you live. As long as one group gets preferences over another you will always be at each others throats. Why is that so hard to understand?

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    why is it so hard to understand that laws will continue to give preferences to certain groups and that opportunities and allocations will never be equally distributed?

    there is a difference between discrimination and unfair discrimination.

    If people don't like the system of rural preference than it is likely because they choose to live in an area with poor hunting and fishing opportunities relative to the local human harvest pressures. The growing human population combined with the relative ease of access is largely responsible for the changes in the way things are managed.


    Tell me why locals should not be allocated preference to nearby resources.


    I fail to see why some are willing to embrace regulations which discriminate towards Alaska residents over non residents, but unwilling to extend the same line of thinking to a more local level.

    Maybe they are a bit dissatisfied with the opportunities in their local area? Sounds like an internal conflict of priorities.

  12. #12
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post


    Tell me why locals should not be allocated preference to nearby resources.

    That's a great point.

    I live close to an international airport. I should get preferential treatment at the airport. Folks who do not live close to this airport should not be allowed to use this airport until I am completely done with it for the year.


    That makes perfect sense.
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  13. #13
    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default sianara sporties!

    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post


    I fail to see why some are willing to embrace regulations which discriminate towards Alaska residents over non residents, but unwilling to extend the same line of thinking to a more local level.

    Maybe they are a bit dissatisfied with the opportunities in their local area? Sounds like an internal conflict of priorities.
    federal subsistence is not coming from the local level and the state is actually against it. furthermore, yes i am dissatified and conflicted as the game in my area is vanishing and heres why

    http://www.wc.adfg.state.ak.us/pubs/...s/08_moose.pdf

    big file, may need moderator help but-


    see page 214, bottom paragraph straight from the bio "the permits in unit 15b are not producing as they were in the recent past...........as a consequence of this new federal subsistence hunts......the number of late season permits was reduced down from 50 to 10 in 2008..........and none will be issued of 2009"

    even this biologist know's it's bad news. i just read my own area report, so not sure what other bio's are saying about this policy. but this policy is like setting a thermostat for your house from washington DC. and good discrimination or bad discrimination it's bad for hunting and i too understood it and ok'd it at first. i know it may likely takes some time for thought.

    i understand it seems like a good and fair practice for people to have precident of there own back yard- but it's not. the resources are either there or there not. and as this thing goes on, the resources will be there for ALL less and less frequently.

    mark my words! seeing it 4 years is enough for me.

    as res says- it's a cancer. very well put

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    seems like it should go without saying that airports are not natural resources and thus your (phish) proximity to one is not really relevant to this conversation.


    If there is a forest near to you that produces a limited supply of sustainable firewood harvest each year I support it's allocation to you and your neighbors.

    You would probably not like it if folks from a formerly forested but now nearly treeless area (what trees are left are low quality and hard to access b/c the easy stuff was all cut rapidly) were driving their d-9s over and skidding back logs from the forest near to you just because they liked cutting wood there, leaving drag marks as they head back across town to their homes, and taking a large share which would deplete the stocks faster than they will regrow.

    You would see that their harvest practices are not sustainable and that they have little consideration for their impact on the nearby forest and you would be probably be outraged that there was not a law to stop such exploitation.


    Now consider the nelchina caribou herd....etc.

  15. #15
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    The citizens of the Great State of Alaska should have equal access to the fish and game available in this state. If the game is in your back yard then your expenses are lowered. You also have local knowledge.

    Lowered expenses and local knowledge seem like enough of an advantage to me.

    The airport comment was kinda tongue in cheek.

    If you own the property then you should have the only right to hunt the land. As the land in question is owned by my children as much as it is owned by you, they should have equal access to that land.
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  16. #16
    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Thumbs up i totally agree with what you say, especially

    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post


    Now consider the nelchina caribou herd....etc.
    i was reading about a new herd somewhere the other day. think it was established in 1995 or so. i am thinking around the northen part of the togiak north of dilligham. and just for subsistence.

    but all thats is roadless, and i have no problem with people who keep it real. most of the 'natives' i know and are friends for many years live in anchorage. but they still have there community ties.

    it bothers me that people are working and reside within my community yet claiming subsistence and tearing up roads as you say, literally working 5 miles from my home, claiming subsistence -but shoveling out food at the fred meyer deli and in meat dept. and other who make 100k+ working on the slope.

    +1 for what you stand 4

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    Member aksheephuntress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    That's a great point.

    I live close to an international airport. I should get preferential treatment at the airport. Folks who do not live close to this airport should not be allowed to use this airport until I am completely done with it for the year.


    That makes perfect sense.


    .....that's funny, Phish.....
    ....a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed....

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aksheephuntress View Post


    .....that's funny, Phish.....
    Thanks.

    Usually people get upset instead of taking the comment at face value
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    We have land and a few homes for sale here in Hope, and in Sunrise, Alaska.
    Careful. We used to be a rural place out in the Valley just 40 short years ago (before the game started). If you want to keep your "gimme", you'd better nail the "Keep Out" signs up with spikes. Real estate development will turn you "urban" faster than you think, and subsistence offers no "grandfather rights".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    As the land in question is owned by my children as much as it is owned by you, they should have equal access to that land.

    I completely agree.

    but equal access to the land and equal opportunity to hunt/fish a specific area are very different things.

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