Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 81

Thread: NPS protest Fbks

  1. #1
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default NPS protest Fbks

    On Monday, April 19, at 4 pm, people who feel strongly that the National Park Service is overstepping there bounds, will be demonstrating in front of the Park Service offices on Geist Road here in Fairbanks.

    If you got time, stop by. Park Service might get the idea to do this more often if we don't complain.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  2. #2

    Thumbs up

    Thanks MT.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Chugiak
    Posts
    51

    Default information?

    Any information on whether there will be a protest against ridiculous BOG decisions like hunting sows and cubs in the den with lights?

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    62

    Default Anchorage Too

    There's a protest in Anchorage today also, 5th and C St in front of the new NPS buidling at 4PM, same topic.

  5. #5
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    13,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tron-diuck View Post
    Any information on whether there will be a protest against ridiculous BOG decisions like hunting sows and cubs in the den with lights?
    I can't imagine the protest would cover than topic, as the National Park Service has nothing to do with state Board of Game regulations.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Chugiak
    Posts
    51

    Default Your right but....

    The NPS decision to close parks to sport hunting WAS in response to the BOG decision about bear hunting, among other things. It was meant as a joke, perhaps poorly crafted.

  7. #7

    Default Huh?

    Been gone hunting a few days, what have I missed? What's the protest about?
    Alaska Outdoors Television ~ Outdoor Channel

  8. #8
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default Some background

    In 2008, the Board of Game passed a new regulation that would allow the taking of bears at dens using artificial light, and the taking of cubs and sows with cubs in parts of units 19 and 24 that included Denali and Gates of the Arctic National Preserve lands.

    The Board passed this proposal based on what's called "customary and traditional" (C&T) methods and means used by Native peoples in those areas. But the new regulation didn't just apply to federally qualified subsistence users; it applied to all hunters in Alaska.

    This new regulation did not meet the requirements of the Park Service to manage based on "values" concerns, as well as real resource concerns. So in 2009, NPS put in a proposal (#5) to the Board, asking the Board to disallow this practice on the Preserve lands in those units. I was at the BOG meeting, heard the NPS testimony, and the Board responses and questions. I just transcribed the audio, and want to include some of it now so everyone can be informed.

    When Greg Dudgeon, the NPS superintendent for Gates of the Arctic testified as to NPS rationale for proposal #5, he was asked this by member Ben Grussendorf: "What if we don't comply; what steps would you take?"

    Dudgeon: "Through a compendium closure...close this kind of activity on Preserve lands."

    More questions and comments from the Board, which were interesting in that BOG member Bradley said he didn't realize when he voted on the proposal that it would allow non-Natives to take part: "So when it came through us, my understanding, I didn't realize it was gonna be for a general hunt that anyone could participate in, I thought it was just gonna be for Natives."

    (That is, with all due respect to member Bradley, a sad statement imo that a BOG member doesn't understand the effect of a regulation he is voting on.)

    And then Chairman Judkins finished off the comments to NPS with this: "
    Just because our regulations say you can do something doesn't mean you can do it on private land without their concurrence...ya know I think you've got that ability to deal with this problem. We adopted this based on a proposal by local people up there and we did it without big fanfare and headlines in the newspaper and we didn't create a big thing of it, and now that's kinda changed, which is unfortunate, but at any rate I really don't see a problem. We're not saying people can go on your land and do something; we're just saying what the policy of the state is. Landowners within that area still have control of their land and its uses."

    It was clear that rather than pass the NPS proposal asking the Board to deal with the conflict over differing agency management guidelines, that the Board wanted NPS to deal with this themselves. Which is exactly what the NPS did!

    So I was surprised to read this statement by chair Judkins in the recent ADFG press release: "These closures are a blatant attempt to undermine our public process and may be a violation of ANILCA."

    That is the background on the closure of the bear denning that included the use of artificial light and the taking of cubs and sows with cubs.

    The other issue is that of NPS closing the so-called "sport" hunting and trapping of wolves in Yukon-Charley Preserve until May 31, 2010. And that issues is one that I can see why folks are getting riled up about, somewhat. But still, I feel most don't have any knowledge of the background and how we got to the point that NPS took that action.

    NPS and ADFG have been in discussions for a while now regarding the ongoing wolf control activities that take place on the perimeter of the Yukon-Charley Preserve, a large drop in wolf numbers within the Preserve, and the hope that any more NPS collared wolves and those pack members would not be taken in control activities outside the Preserve. There was a tacit agreement this spring that F&G would avoid taking any NPS collared wolves, and NPS gave ADFG the collar frequencies of the wolves they'd collared in the Preserve, the ones they monitored as part of the wolf density estimates.

    Somehow or another, during this spring's wolf control activities, F&G ended up shooting the two collared wolves and the other two pack members of the Webber Creek pack, that NPS was studying and monitoring. It was unfortunate, wasn't intentional, basically was just a very bad mistake. But it happened, and NPS had outlined the actions they may be forced to take if it did. One of which was to close the remainder of the wolf season for non-federally-qualified users.

    Now I have certainly not always agreed with NPS actions by any means. I live just north of Yukon-Charley, travel through it, have hunted and trapped within it. But at the same time, I don't view all NPS actions, or NPS management policies, as bad. "They" are our neighbors, in a literal sense...and I've had many interactions with NPS staff over the last 30 years. I've helped them in the field, and they've helped me. They pulled my wife and dogs out of here when wildlfire was about to burn us out in 2004. NPS chopper came to check on us last spring during one of thee worst breakups in recent history, and they pulled another guy and his gal and their dogs out of a life-threatening situation.

    So I find this anti-fed faux populist outrage, this talk of a protest, to be kind of absurd. I doubt people even know what they are protesting, or how and why these actions mentioned above came about.

    We (the state) need to continue to have a good working relationship with the feds. God knows we do many cooperative efforts regarding game population estimates and research that benefits us all. If you hunt the Western Arctic and Central Arctic caribou herds, NPS has worked with the state on cooperative wildlife mgmt research. NPS has done post-calving studies of the Fortymile herd. NPS has done moose studies in Unit 24, muskox surveys, moose surveys on the Kobuk and Koyukuk, collaring efforts of caribou at Onion Portage...I could go on but the point is that all this is shared research and studies with ADFG, that F&G uses as part and parcel of the overall knowledge of game herds, as part of info submitted to the Board of Game so the Board can make decisions based on science and data.

    What's going on now, in my honest opinion, the anti-NPS outrage being promulgated by ADFG leadership, and in part the Board of Game through its chairman, is wholly political in nature, and isn't based on the Park Service really overstepping its authority. Certainly not in the case of the bear denning decision.

    Anyway, just my take.
    Sincerely,

  9. #9

    Thumbs up

    NO MORE SPIN. It is past time for Alaskan's to tell the NPS when to take a hike. Only those with ties to the NPS favor their nonsense. Come on Alaskan's do what is right by your kids.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  10. #10
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,217

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    In 2008, the Board of Game passed a new regulation that would allow the taking of bears at dens using artificial light, and the taking of cubs and sows with cubs in parts of units 19 and 24 that included Denali and Gates of the Arctic National Preserve lands.

    The Board passed this proposal based on what's called "customary and traditional" (C&T) methods and means used by Native peoples in those areas. But the new regulation didn't just apply to federally qualified subsistence users; it applied to all hunters in Alaska.

    This new regulation did not meet the requirements of the Park Service to manage based on "values" concerns, as well as real resource concerns. So in 2009, NPS put in a proposal (#5) to the Board, asking the Board to disallow this practice on the Preserve lands in those units. I was at the BOG meeting, heard the NPS testimony, and the Board responses and questions. I just transcribed the audio, and want to include some of it now so everyone can be informed.

    When Greg Dudgeon, the NPS superintendent for Gates of the Arctic testified as to NPS rationale for proposal #5, he was asked this by member Ben Grussendorf: "What if we don't comply; what steps would you take?"

    Dudgeon: "Through a compendium closure...close this kind of activity on Preserve lands."

    More questions and comments from the Board, which were interesting in that BOG member Bradley said he didn't realize when he voted on the proposal that it would allow non-Natives to take part: "So when it came through us, my understanding, I didn't realize it was gonna be for a general hunt that anyone could participate in, I thought it was just gonna be for Natives."

    (That is, with all due respect to member Bradley, a sad statement imo that a BOG member doesn't understand the effect of a regulation he is voting on.)

    And then Chairman Judkins finished off the comments to NPS with this: " Just because our regulations say you can do something doesn't mean you can do it on private land without their concurrence...ya know I think you've got that ability to deal with this problem. We adopted this based on a proposal by local people up there and we did it without big fanfare and headlines in the newspaper and we didn't create a big thing of it, and now that's kinda changed, which is unfortunate, but at any rate I really don't see a problem. We're not saying people can go on your land and do something; we're just saying what the policy of the state is. Landowners within that area still have control of their land and its uses."

    It was clear that rather than pass the NPS proposal asking the Board to deal with the conflict over differing agency management guidelines, that the Board wanted NPS to deal with this themselves. Which is exactly what the NPS did!

    So I was surprised to read this statement by chair Judkins in the recent ADFG press release: "These closures are a blatant attempt to undermine our public process and may be a violation of ANILCA."

    That is the background on the closure of the bear denning that included the use of artificial light and the taking of cubs and sows with cubs.

    The other issue is that of NPS closing the so-called "sport" hunting and trapping of wolves in Yukon-Charley Preserve until May 31, 2010. And that issues is one that I can see why folks are getting riled up about, somewhat. But still, I feel most don't have any knowledge of the background and how we got to the point that NPS took that action.

    NPS and ADFG have been in discussions for a while now regarding the ongoing wolf control activities that take place on the perimeter of the Yukon-Charley Preserve, a large drop in wolf numbers within the Preserve, and the hope that any more NPS collared wolves and those pack members would not be taken in control activities outside the Preserve. There was a tacit agreement this spring that F&G would avoid taking any NPS collared wolves, and NPS gave ADFG the collar frequencies of the wolves they'd collared in the Preserve, the ones they monitored as part of the wolf density estimates.

    Somehow or another, during this spring's wolf control activities, F&G ended up shooting the two collared wolves and the other two pack members of the Webber Creek pack, that NPS was studying and monitoring. It was unfortunate, wasn't intentional, basically was just a very bad mistake. But it happened, and NPS had outlined the actions they may be forced to take if it did. One of which was to close the remainder of the wolf season for non-federally-qualified users.

    Now I have certainly not always agreed with NPS actions by any means. I live just north of Yukon-Charley, travel through it, have hunted and trapped within it. But at the same time, I don't view all NPS actions, or NPS management policies, as bad. "They" are our neighbors, in a literal sense...and I've had many interactions with NPS staff over the last 30 years. I've helped them in the field, and they've helped me. They pulled my wife and dogs out of here when wildlfire was about to burn us out in 2004. NPS chopper came to check on us last spring during one of thee worst breakups in recent history, and they pulled another guy and his gal and their dogs out of a life-threatening situation.

    So I find this anti-fed faux populist outrage, this talk of a protest, to be kind of absurd. I doubt people even know what they are protesting, or how and why these actions mentioned above came about.

    We (the state) need to continue to have a good working relationship with the feds. God knows we do many cooperative efforts regarding game population estimates and research that benefits us all. If you hunt the Western Arctic and Central Arctic caribou herds, NPS has worked with the state on cooperative wildlife mgmt research. NPS has done post-calving studies of the Fortymile herd. NPS has done moose studies in Unit 24, muskox surveys, moose surveys on the Kobuk and Koyukuk, collaring efforts of caribou at Onion Portage...I could go on but the point is that all this is shared research and studies with ADFG, that F&G uses as part and parcel of the overall knowledge of game herds, as part of info submitted to the Board of Game so the Board can make decisions based on science and data.

    What's going on now, in my honest opinion, the anti-NPS outrage being promulgated by ADFG leadership, and in part the Board of Game through its chairman, is wholly political in nature, and isn't based on the Park Service really overstepping its authority. Certainly not in the case of the bear denning decision.

    Anyway, just my take.
    Sincerely,
    Well said. Thank you.

  11. #11
    Member stevelyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fairbanksan in Aleutian Hell
    Posts
    1,316

    Default

    I really wish I could be there. The Nazi Park Circus has been overstepping its bounds for a long time, moreso since the Klintoon regime.
    At least this time they've heaped it on enough for people to take notice and act.
    Now what ?

  12. #12

    Default

    Thanks Mark for taking the time to lay this out.

    -Tim
    Alaska Outdoors Television ~ Outdoor Channel

  13. #13

    Thumbs up

    This is to thank the Protestors: hip hip hooray. These folks have my absolute admiration and are genuine HEROS.

    Now why don't the defenders of the NPS stage their own rally? Instead of just talking.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  14. #14
    Member lynch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    327

    Default

    After reading the post by bushrat I wonder how many people that plan on protesting have looked into the facts behind this one. It is popular for many people to yell and scream about the feds. I see this stuff way to much. Some times the feds. need a little wake up call but most of the time I see this kind of pissy stuff it is just a bunch of people that are trying to pump them selves up by yelling and screaming at some one. Watch, there will be people yelling at secretaries and clerks going back and forth for work (people who have nothing to do with decision making). Look up the facts people.
    "Bark,bark,bark,sniff,sniff,bark,and bark" - Lynchs Blue Roan Lynch E.C.K.

  15. #15

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by lynch View Post
    Look up the facts people.
    Yes. But please ignore the Opinions some of which are stated here. Everyone only tells it the way they want to see it. Without exception, everyone that has come the defense of the NPS on here or anywhere else, has a vested stake in their presence and is quite willing to sell the rest of us down the road for the benefit derived. That is a Fact.

    On Edit: I don't even care if the guy/gal is a janitor that cleans the toilets. If they work for the NPS they should all get the same treatment.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  16. #16

    Angry

    I have to say, I am appalled by how few Alaskan's know just how destructive the NPS has been to hunting in Alaska. Read your history books for gosh sakes.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  17. #17
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    . Read your history books for gosh sakes.
    Read? when do i have time to read?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  18. #18
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Searching for more cowbell!
    Posts
    1,945

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Read your history books for gosh sakes.
    Read the Constitution. It's pretty clear that the Stars and Bars has first say on what happens on their land.

    It's ironic how the folks who complain about their Constitution being trampled have no idea what is actually in their Constitution.
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  19. #19

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Read? when do i have time to read?
    Darn it Vince. Have the kids read it to you. Make it a home study project. Then they will understand the Why, when they ask why can't they hunt on the other side of that "line".

    They might also be less inclined to get wadded up with the like of the NPS, if they know the truth about them and their past practices and future intent.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  20. #20

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Read the Constitution. It's pretty clear that the Stars and Bars has first say on what happens on their land.

    It's ironic how the folks who complain about their Constitution being trampled have no idea what is actually in their Constitution.
    It also says that the People have the Final Say in the matter. Did you miss that part? Bottom line, the more tolerant you are, the more you are going to get tread on.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •