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Thread: Seat twisting?

  1. #1
    Member BrowningLeverAction's Avatar
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    Question Seat twisting?

    This may be a silly question. I have been using an old steel welded rowing frame and finally decided it was time to build a more "modern" set up. I will be using standard 1 5/8 aluminum pipe with Hollaender fittings. Has anyone with a setup like this ever had any issues with their captain's seat twisting during aggressive rowing, either the seat mount itself or the pipe it is mounted on? I am trying to decide if I need to cope the pipe to prevent ill-timed movements.

  2. #2

    Default seat

    DON'T DO IT!! Stick with the stationary seat!! Too many moving parts!!
    Just Goo's thoughts--
    Good luck

  3. #3

    Default seat

    I just re-read your post. At first i thought you meant a "fish-on" type seat.
    Should be no problem with your fittings as long as they are tight and on a stationary seat.
    Goo

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    Thanks, Goo. I had never heard of that happening, but don't want to find out in the middle of a rapid. BTW, I met you at the Sportsman's Show. Thanks for a great deal on a dry bag!

  5. #5

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    as long as the seat bar is not the elevated style, you won't see any movement. the elevated seat bar is where there might be some concern of tweaking or twisting under crazy pressure. i've never seen this first hand but have heard others that i trust express concern. raising the center of gravity puts a lot of pressure on the hardware. add the force of a 200 lb guy all geeked up on camp coffee and headed for a nasty class IV = lots of torque. goo and the other forum raftheads might chime in on this subject. urban myth? take care, abel6wt

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    I don't think a straight bar could twist, the fitting at each end would not let it.

    The seat could slip back if you didn't have the u-bolts tight, but I've never had a prob.

  7. #7

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    I use the handrail fittings for my frame too.
    I haven't noticed any twisting of the pipe. Sounds like you just need to crank down a little more on those set screws.

    Also, do your set screws have a flat tip or do they have "teeth"? By that I mean, angled grooves cut into the tip of the screw to improve holding ability.

    One more thing I've noticed is you really want to keep your frame together once you get it set up. If you are breaking it down every trip, you might want to invest in NRS knuckles.

    I have some grooves and scratches in the end of my tubes from breaking down the frame. Over time you will notice that your set screw don't have a solid place to grip due to the scarring.

    I've only been doing this rafting thing for a couple of years. So, maybe some the "old guys" can chime in on my observations.
    Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~Henry David Thoreau

  8. #8
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    I haven't completed or tested my new frame yet, but going from a welded frame to a screw together type got me thinking about the possibility of movement. My set screws have "teeth." Thanks for the advice on keeping it together as much as possible to avoid lack of bite on the scarring - that makes a lot of sense.

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    You can also "pin" those fittings. Added to the setscrews, or even without them, they can't twist.

    I have had the type of rowing seat that uses two U Bolts to clamp to the tube slip. It always happens in the middle of the most important move on the river, and all of a sudden your seat is insisting you to lay down on the job. Very annoying! Of course it all comes down to tightening the thing down BEFORE you start down the river. ---- Who knew?

  10. #10

    Default frame seat

    Hey mate, give her a try-- if it does not feel right -- give me a call and i can fix the problem.
    Goo
    sotaralaska@yahoo.com

  11. #11
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Seat security issues

    The bar itself probably won't twist, but the seat can spin around on the bar. Doesn't matter how hard you reef down on those set screws, they just don't have enough bite to keep them from moving on you, especially if you get one of those big, corn-fed Iowa farm boys in the saddle (no offense to the aforementioned livestock). I've even seen it happen with the U-bolt seat plate setups.

    As Jim suggested, you're better off through-bolting your Hollaenders to the pipe. You could go with quick-release pins, eliminating the need for through-bolts, but some users have reported that the holes eventually ream themselves out because the pins are harder metal (steel) than the pipe (aluminum). If the holes do ream out a bit, you can get a metallic clicking sound every time you pull on the oars. If you're float hunting, this sound is telegraphed clear around the next bend, and critters are not as apt to linger on the bank to see what you are... you'll see less game from the boat.

    If it was me, I'd just weld a flat plate on my seat bar and bolt the seat to that. It's much stronger.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
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  12. #12

    Default Twist Seat for Outboard motor

    Front seat on my 14' Cat is 360 swivel, rowing seat is ridged, sure would be nice to be able to turn it 45 and lock it in place when I run the 5hp outboard accross Skilac or ?

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    Member BrowningLeverAction's Avatar
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    I noticed that west marine has a 12 position locking swivel mount by B and M listed on their website. I haven't gone into the store to see if they have it locally, but I may try to pick one up for my passenger seat.

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    Default Lending a hand to your seat...

    Quote Originally Posted by BrowningLeverAction View Post
    I noticed that west marine has a 12 position locking swivel mount by B and M listed on their website. I haven't gone into the store to see if they have it locally, but I may try to pick one up for my passenger seat.
    It's that 12th position B & M... I'd be concerned with

    Row station on a river raft or cataraft should remain unmodified, centered and stable... No swivelin' do the twist thang.

    Worried about the seat 'bar' rotating: ID inner diameter --- OD outer
    1.) Thru-bolt pipe and ID or OD fitting - note this is common on ID fittings
    2.) Quick-pin same holes drilled for a thru-bolt - good on both ID & OD fittings
    *couple issues here with both means of connection, but have little to do w/ regards to strength:
    a.) ID fittings have the tendency at most shops to be a 1 shot deal on having holes line up (good idea to stamp a label on mating parts)
    b.) OD w/ set screws (single or double) are still a good idea because there is extra wiggle 'ID' of fitting for OD of pipe... as in example 'a' most shops will not be accurate enough to make pinning a universal fit.

    Worried about 'seat' rotating on a well anchored frame cross-bar:
    1.) Run a thru-bolt (2 or 3 if you like) down into the seat-plate and cross-bar
    2,) U-bots set-up with thru-bolt down the middle like in '1'.
    3.) Weld seat plate on (make sure it's were you want it!)
    4.) ID fittings with plates will need double set-screws and a thu-bolt or pin through pipe.

    I'd share a few more recipes... however, our raft repair service as well as frame building is in overdrive.

    Takin' a short break & back to plastic welding and gluing,
    Brian

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    Default

    There have been a few times I would like to have a locking swivel option on the rowers seat, but not when I'm rowing. And like Brian, I'm skeptical of anything that might some day get loose and swivel at the wrong time. Certainly be exciting if it did.

    But Brian's post got me thinking about putting a pin through my rower's seat mount to insure the seat plate does not twist on the pipe if I forget to tighten it properly in the future. (Not very likely now that I have experienced the results.) But that reminded me that I prefer to have my rowing seat tipped SLIGHTLY forward in order to enable a stronger (better braced) forward push on the oars when needed. I have a welded seat plate on another frame that is exactly level, and I don't like it.

    Any thoughts or different preferences out there? I use a short seat back, would that make a difference to your preference? I also use a cooler for a seat sometimes, and when I do I prefer to tip it slightly forward as well. Any ideas on an easy way to keep it from slipping back?

  16. #16
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    Thumbs up

    Yes Jim... right on w/ follow-up on seat.

    I agree on the forward slant to a "low back seat"... like a slant-board day frame for whitewater guiding - leverage with balance is key to more power plus conservation of motion. I also do it to shed water as well as slanting my cooler position the same way if I'm rowing atop it.

    Just the opposite on a high-back seat tho... rock it back a bit from level - otherwise it won't be all that comfortable, hit you on the back by getting in the way even more-so when takin' a long haul back on the oars.

    This is why I emphasized 'where ya want it' especially in welding or by u-bolt plates then drilling/making a thru-bolt or pinning option.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Strutz View Post
    I also use a cooler for a seat sometimes, and when I do I prefer to tip it slightly forward as well. Any ideas on an easy way to keep it from slipping back?
    Do you use the NRS cooler hangers or just straps? They seem like they might let you adjust in a tilt and it would stay positioned.

  18. #18
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    Regarding the swivel mount, I am not going to put this on my rower's seat. I understand the issues with any unnecessary moving parts. However, I am considering the locking swivel for my front passenger seat, so they can face forward, outboard (on lazy stretches), or inboard for some social interaction. Does any one have any good or bad experiences with the locking swivels? I realize I might be hijacking my own thread a little bit here.

    I plan on taking a couple of runs down the Eagle River without any thru-bolts on my rowing seat or crossbar (but good tight u-bolts, Jim), and see what happens. If there is movement, then a-welding I will go. I appreciate the suggestion to tilt the seat forward slightly.

  19. #19
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Question-

    Quote Originally Posted by BrowningLeverAction View Post
    Regarding the swivel mount, I am not going to put this on my rower's seat. I understand the issues with any unnecessary moving parts. However, I am considering the locking swivel for my front passenger seat, so they can face forward, outboard (on lazy stretches), or inboard for some social interaction. Does any one have any good or bad experiences with the locking swivels? I realize I might be hijacking my own thread a little bit here.

    I plan on taking a couple of runs down the Eagle River without any thru-bolts on my rowing seat or crossbar (but good tight u-bolts, Jim), and see what happens. If there is movement, then a-welding I will go. I appreciate the suggestion to tilt the seat forward slightly.
    I get what you are saying on the swivel passenger seats ( I use them on every hunt), but why do you need it to lock?

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  20. #20
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    I suppose it doesn't have to lock. I don't want my passenger to go spinning off into the drink if we happen to move in a funny direction, but I guess they'll just need to pay attention

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