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Thread: Not getting drawn/Unfair system is rigged

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    Default Not getting drawn/Unfair system is rigged

    You know I was thinking what can Alaska do to fix this system to make it fair. I was thinking of the states I lived in and had to deal with the draw system. In Oregon you put in your choices up to 5 per species pay 4 dollars per species so if you put in for Elk, Deer, and Antelops 12 dollars now I think that is a little higher now need to look in the reg. If you didn't draw Elk, Deer or Antelope you got a 1 perference point for each one. Now Arizona system would truly fix the system up here, 1st the State would have to charge for tags so lets make Moose tags 75.00, Brown bear 125.00, Caribou 50.00, Sheep 150.00 Goat 130.00 and Bison 225.00 so now we have our tags fees when you go in and put in you have to send in either a check or visa card number because you have to pay for the tags up front! So you would have to send 755 dollars so if you and your spouse or kids want to hunt woo wee that is pretty steep prices to pay 3 people comes to $2,265 also Harvest tickets will still be free. If YOU all truly want to fix a system you say is broke this is probably the only way to fix it. But like all Alaskans YOU feel entitled and feel you shouldn't have to pay. So sit back and truly think about what you are saying it coudl be alot worse especially when you are writing a check for $2,000 plus dollars.

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    What you are saying is very true. Some don't know how good they have it till it is gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    So you would have to send 755 dollars so if you and your spouse or kids want to hunt woo wee that is pretty steep prices to pay 3 people comes to $2,265 also Harvest tickets will still be free. .
    Your staement above needs some clarity, draw hunts are just specifically managed areas of the state, just cuz a person doesn't draw does not mean they cant hunt! Folks need to look at draw tags as Easy gimmee hunts or Trophy quality hunts. These two different types of hunts need to be treated individually with the kind of quality the hunt provides. I personally do not look at a Delta or Matsu Valley antlerless moose tag as the equal of a Delta Bison, Kodiak Brown , or a Chugach or DCUA/TMA sheep tag, hence the problem that many are addressing. The Draw system needs to address these types of hunts with the specific attention they need. As I have stated, hunts with a 2-4% chance of drawing are not the equal of a 60- 70% chance of drawing hunts. When one hears about a 20-30 year Alaskan not drawing a low percentage hunt, and says suck it up, quit complaining, why do you keep putting in for a low % tag, its not right. Something should be established for COVETED tags that enables a long time Alaskan to have a chance in their lifetime to draw said tag rather than gambling with LUCK!

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    The fees put would be fo the draw only... What it does is make people really think abotu what they want tp ut in for sinc emost just want a moost tag you will see a big decline in people putting for Sheep and goat tags just becuase. You knwo how much a resident pays for a bull Bison tag in Arizona 1500 dollars yes 1500 that really makes one think about it for it. Yes if you are not drawn you get your money refunded to you. So I hope people understand what I'm saying alot of folks will stop putting in for tags simply becuase of the cost. My buddy drew a Sheep tag quit hunting nd day in the hunt said screw it I was like wow man you sure that tag probably cost some money he laughed and goes hell no it was 5 dollars I told him a bighorn sheep tag in the lower 48 is an easy 450 dollars for a resident. So not only you have people re-think what they will put in for they will more than likely use it becase they just bought X amount piece of paper. Also the whole argument well my family depends on moose meat and whatever is else you cannot really use that argument anymore unless you are out in the boonies then you get federal tags.

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    Sounds like a system where only the rich get to put in for tags and the people who cant afford much and depend on the possibility of getting a tag to put food in the mouths of thier family loose out. I dont see anything wrong with the lottery system. You win some, you loose some.

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say that draw systems are supposed to necessarily be fair as in, not everyone should get a permit. The general harvest is the hunt that is fair and equal, everyone has the oppurtunity to participate, but a draw hunt, you are not guaranteed anything, so you shouldn't expect anything, it is total luck of the draw, that is why it is called a drawing.

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    Alaska just needs to adopt the drawing system that Maine uses for it's moose hunt. Go to their website and check it out. It will take a while, but you won't believe what you read. It has something for everybody.

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    323, please try and edit a little. We all make mistakes but I'm not sure your point is getting through. It hurts to try and read parts of it. I don't agree with what I believe your point is on a number of levels. I've also been stationed down south in Utah were a resident bighorn tag was $1000.00 and I could not put it for it because I simply could not afford a $1000 tag. So the state erased the oppurtunity for me to consider hunting bighorn in Utah. Is that fair? Raising tag fees to that level would make hunting in Alaska more of a rish man's game than elsewhere. Yes, there are general season hunts that are expensive but its because of access, not tag cost. Add a $1000 tag to the access cost that are already high and it will prevent some from hunting. I also disagree that if a can't family depended on moose meat if you don't live in the boonies. I know people in Anchorage who's level of income is such that a moose really helps the economics of the family. And yes, there are some relatively inexpensive hunts for moose, and if you get drawn for a GMU 14 tag, its even better. People that just want a moose tag are usually not going to put in for sheep and goats "just because". Your buddy quitting the hunt after the nd(?) day may have happened no matter the cost.

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    Hey Milo, when I was there it was easy. 1000 tags (went to 1500 the year I left) and the first 1000 names drawn got the tags. The drawing was on the radio. Pretty easy, 1 species and that was it. I'll look tosee how it changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    Also the whole argument well my family depends on moose meat and whatever is else you cannot really use that argument anymore unless you are out in the boonies then you get federal tags.
    Just because meat is available for purchase at the store does not mean that a family does not depend on wild game.

    I live on the road system, but 98% of the meat we consume is wild. We depend on it. I will not feed my wife and child hormone-laden, high fat beef from some slaughterhouse. Comparing wild moose to ground beef from the store is not an accurate comparison. The only thing that comes close would be organic grass-fed beef from a small family farm. Beef from such cows can run $10/lb or more. Given the amount of wild game that I can harvest for a relatively low cost, yeah, I'd say that my family depends on wild game. Where you live in relation to the road system has nothing to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    Hey Milo, when I was there it was easy. 1000 tags (went to 1500 the year I left) and the first 1000 names drawn got the tags. The drawing was on the radio. Pretty easy, 1 species and that was it. I'll look tosee how it changed.
    Bonus points, multiple chances for money, subpermittees and permit swapping.
    You got to go read it. It is absolutely not where I want see things go, but to each his own. Just be careful what you wish for

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Just because meat is available for purchase at the store does not mean that a family does not depend on wild game.

    I live on the road system, but 98% of the meat we consume is wild. We depend on it. I will not feed my wife and child hormone-laden, high fat beef from some slaughterhouse. Comparing wild moose to ground beef from the store is not an accurate comparison. The only thing that comes close would be organic grass-fed beef from a small family farm. Beef from such cows can run $10/lb or more. Given the amount of wild game that I can harvest for a relatively low cost, yeah, I'd say that my family depends on wild game. Where you live in relation to the road system has nothing to do with it.

    Again that argument is getting real old and can't really use it anymore. For alot of you depending on wild game to feed your family 99% of the time well times must be hard cause seveal of you haven't got an animal since 2008 LOL. You cannot harvest wild game for a low cost unless you have full blown butcher outfit running out of your basemnt of your house. Hunting is not cheap... IF you are nto figuring the gas, and other cost into that pund of wild game meat then you are kidding yourself. In the end the avg lb of wild meat runs us more than 10dollars a lb I know I better stop now I'm starting to make sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    323, please try and edit a little. We all make mistakes but I'm not sure your point is getting through. It hurts to try and read parts of it. I don't agree with what I believe your point is on a number of levels. I've also been stationed down south in Utah were a resident bighorn tag was $1000.00 and I could not put it for it because I simply could not afford a $1000 tag. So the state erased the oppurtunity for me to consider hunting bighorn in Utah. Is that fair? Raising tag fees to that level would make hunting in Alaska more of a rish man's game than elsewhere. Yes, there are general season hunts that are expensive but its because of access, not tag cost. Add a $1000 tag to the access cost that are already high and it will prevent some from hunting. I also disagree that if a can't family depended on moose meat if you don't live in the boonies. I know people in Anchorage who's level of income is such that a moose really helps the economics of the family. And yes, there are some relatively inexpensive hunts for moose, and if you get drawn for a GMU 14 tag, its even better. People that just want a moose tag are usually not going to put in for sheep and goats "just because". Your buddy quitting the hunt after the nd(?) day may have happened no matter the cost.

    No it won't be a rich man sport casue you still have access to Harvest tags and registration permits. I find it real hard to believe a family in Anchorage is dependign on Pa to kill a moose this year so the family has meat on the table for the year. Is Alaska the only state in the union where people depend on meat to feed thier families form wild game??? I can see where they use the meat as additonal source. But to count on it **** family going to be pissed if Dad comes home empty handed looks like a lot of hamburger helper minus the hamburger. If such a system was in place I can tell you now I would only put in for moose tags the rest oh well don't really need to hunt them. That is the point people are only putting in becuase it is so cheap. Put a price on that tag and they will sit thier and think about it, do I really need a sheep tag, do I really need that goat tag? You see what I'm saying one last thing make that sheep tag for certain areas a once in lifetime tag. You draw it you better use it because you will never be able to put in for it again. Matter of fact make all sheep and goat hunts this way once you draw a tag you can never put in for the draw again fro sheep or goat. But you can get harvet tickets regardless if you drawn a sheep or goat tag.

  14. #14

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    The whining and crying after permit winners are published in this state is absolutely amazing. I wish the oil money was gone tomorrow and we had a major military draw down. I'd like to see the population go away again. This is ridiculous.

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    Default This is NUTS!

    People don't get drawn and they want to change things. So for the guy that got nothing this year, but may draw 3 tags next year, will you feel the same way? Gosh this stuff gets old. And no, I didn't not draw a tag, fact is no one in my entire family did. No big deal, we'll try again next year! Glad I have my "federal" tags to depend on.....that gets old also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samsoniam View Post
    The whining and crying after permit winners are published in this state is absolutely amazing. I wish the oil money was gone tomorrow and we had a major military draw down. I'd like to see the population go away again. This is ridiculous.
    AMEN brother preach it hey I'm in the Army. The problem is when you mention a good way to improve the system so these guys will stop complaining they throw out the old std my family is 99% reliant on the wild game meat I get. It is mind boggling not like they are not going to be able to hunt they have gen hunting season. Don't understand it myself and I guess I never will. Alot of Alaskans are set in their ways and don't want to see any real change but will sit back and complain saying they want it. In the end the feel they are entitled to these tags and they probably think they should be giving to them and not have to put in for a tag. I will say it again 99% of the people in Alaska feel they are entitled to everything. I have never seen a place with such a big entitlement factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by northway View Post
    People don't get drawn and they want to change things. So for the guy that got nothing this year, but may draw 3 tags next year, will you feel the same way? Gosh this stuff gets old. And no, I didn't not draw a tag, fact is no one in my entire family did. No big deal, we'll try again next year! Glad I have my "federal" tags to depend on.....that gets old also.
    LOL I was drawn for tags DM 333 and DE 717. This is for the folks who didn't draw.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    Again that argument is getting real old and can't really use it anymore. For alot of you depending on wild game to feed your family 99% of the time well times must be hard cause seveal of you haven't got an animal since 2008 LOL. You cannot harvest wild game for a low cost unless you have full blown butcher outfit running out of your basemnt of your house. Hunting is not cheap... IF you are nto figuring the gas, and other cost into that pund of wild game meat then you are kidding yourself. In the end the avg lb of wild meat runs us more than 10dollars a lb I know I better stop now I'm starting to make sense.

    I think you are confusing two kinds of hunting. The one that you sort of make sense on is flying out or hunting out of state...at which point even a moose (400-450 pounds of meat finished) could come to around 5 to 10 bucks a pound. But, if you at least break even compared to store bought meat....and you got to enjoy yourself, get some exercise, unwind and spend time with family or friends....BUT that's a profit as well. (seriously, how many hobbies do you break even on....hunting is the only one I have).

    The second is those that actually do conduct low cost hunts. This is tougher in Alaska (and you won't see guys blabbin on it because it only gets tougher then) but since I consider breaking even as good as a profit for my time...it can be and still is done. In other places (such as whitetail areas) it's even easier. I used to buy 40 bucks worth of tags, use a 100 dollar (8 year old) bow, old camo and about 40 gallons of gas per season and usually rang up two to five deer at about 50 finished pounds per animal. No need to bring up the boats and wheelers cuz most folks have em for pure recreation already....I'd have a jetsled even if I didn't hunt.

    Last year was probably my most expensive one (granted I live in the toolies but boats aren't exactly fuel efficient.

    50 gal gas at $5 per gallon =$250
    338 rifle and scope (special equipment)=$550
    12 bullets for sight in and hunt= $25
    Food= $60
    Beer etc.=$40
    Processing materials(saran wrap, bags, paper etc)=$50

    Camping gear=already owned
    Boat=already owned
    Clothing=already owned

    So, a total Cost of $975 bucks (and that's if I don't cost share the rifle with the other 4 large game animals I've eaten due to owning it).

    And from that I pull 400 plus pounds of meat....at around $2.50 a pound.....So yes Virginia...it is real.


    Also, I cut up an entire moose in my one room (16 by 16) cabin in Dillingham when I got my first moose, and I processed every one of the 40 plus whitetails I've shot as well. So I think you underestimate how many folks actually do cut up their own meat and how easy it actually is...maybe you need a new crowd.

    (and also....I'm not special....lots of folks do it just like this...butchering an animal is not rocket science.)

    End HIJack, but back to the point. Making drawings expensive is not the way to go, it would put people like me out of hunting...I already can't do flyouts etc. and if the draw for all areas got pricey as well, I'd be doubly out of it. What I do support is preference points for each time you don't get a tag in a particular draw that you applied for (and a nominal fee per application say 10 to 20 bucks...non refundable) this would cause more fidelity in the draws by a person who wants that hunt and would help reduce the shotgun approach that some utilize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    Making drawings expensive is not the way to go, it would put people like me out of hunting..
    I am not agreeing with making application fees for draw permits more expensive, but how is a more expensive permit going to put you out of hunting? People act like they can't hunt if they don't draw. Seems to me like you can easily spend just as much on a drawing hunt as you can a general harvest, so the price of the application really isn't going to make/break a hunt, and if you can't hunt unless you draw, then chances are pretty good that you wont be hunting anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    Again that argument is getting real old and can't really use it anymore. For alot of you depending on wild game to feed your family 99% of the time well times must be hard cause seveal of you haven't got an animal since 2008 LOL. You cannot harvest wild game for a low cost unless you have full blown butcher outfit running out of your basemnt of your house. Hunting is not cheap... IF you are nto figuring the gas, and other cost into that pund of wild game meat then you are kidding yourself. In the end the avg lb of wild meat runs us more than 10dollars a lb I know I better stop now I'm starting to make sense.
    Last year my wife and I each killed a caribou for a combined fuel cost of just under $100. Both were walk-in hunts. We butcher our own meat and grind our own burger.

    Yes, gear costs are a part of it, but other than my rifles and skinning knives, none of my gear is hunting-specific. If I didn't hunt, I would still have the same tents, boots, backpacks, etc. I use them way more for non-hunting purposes throughout the year.

    For the meat we harvested last year, it would have cost us well over $3,000 for a comparable amount of organic, grass-fed, hormone free domestic meat. Counting the cost of getting some sausages and hot dogs made (I don't do those myself), we filled our freezers for less than $400 total. No, it's not always that cheap - some years I spend considerably more than that - but it can be done inexpensively. I've killed plenty of animals for less than $100.

    By the way, I'm not complaining about the draw system one bit. I didn't win. The system is more than fair. I'll still go hunting this year, and I won't spend much money to do it.

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