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Thread: NPS Wolf and Bear closure

  1. #1
    Member AlpineEarl's Avatar
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    Default NPS Wolf and Bear closure

    The NPS temporarily banned the hunting and trapping of wolves in Yukon-Charlie. They also banned the taking black bear sows and cubs using artificial light in the Gates of The Arctic and Denali Natl. Preserve. Here it is:

    http://www.nps.gov/yuch/parknews/tem...lf-closure.htm

    The Gates and Denali compendiums:
    http://www.nps.gov/akso/compendium/2...Compendium.PDF

    http://www.nps.gov/dena/parkmgmt/upl...4-5-2010v5.pdf

    Can't say this is a surprise. The NPS said they would do it if they did not get some concessions from the BOG.

    ADN article: http://www.adn.com/2010/04/13/122477...wolf-bear.html

  2. #2

    Angry

    When the locals finally get enough of their bullying, they will boycott the Parks Personnel from doing business with them. Make them bring in every thing they need, food, fuel, vehicles and people. Let them do what ever they want to do, but they should not ask nor expect help from Alaskan's. If individuals are willing to do business with the Parkies, they are selling the rest of the state's citizens short. Air taxi's, gas stations, lodges, cafes and stores have a right to refuse service to anyone, EXERCISE your rights...or...pay the cost. The only truely effective way to deal with a Bully, is the isoloate them.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  3. #3

    Thumbs down Flip side

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    ............... The only truely effective way to deal with a Bully, is the isoloate them.
    I see it differently: as in dealing with neophyte Alaskan resource managers and eternally foggy, immature 'Last Frontier' fantasy fans.
    Keep sportin' those blinders and emerge the fool.

  4. #4

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    I see it differently: as in dealing with neophyte Alaskan resource managers and eternally foggy, immature 'Last Frontier' fantasy fans.
    Keep sportin' those blinders and emerge the fool.
    Figured you would. Keep 'turning the other cheek' until you get your tail blistered til you can't sit down. Perhaps you will have better luck dealing with the Federal Parks Managers than you have with the State of Alaska Agencies and Departments. Saddle up and ride with who you want, 'Jimmy Cracked Corn and I .....'.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  5. #5
    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default

    Res is right on this one. This is a classic case of dual management brought on by ANILCA. The NPS didn't like the shooting of "their wolves" by the state last month. This is a knee-jerk reaction to that. Gotta agree, NPS generally isn't our friend in this state.

    Tim

  6. #6

    Default Parochial

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Figured you would. Keep 'turning the other cheek' until you get your tail blistered til you can't sit down. Perhaps you will have better luck dealing with the Federal Parks Managers than you have with the State of Alaska Agencies and Departments. Saddle up and ride with who you want, 'Jimmy Cracked Corn and I .....'.
    A bit overly personal and OT, IMO, Res
    A list of my successes with State of AK are not insignificant, nor are they ended. My 'luck' and experiences encompass noticing State of Alaska statutes trashed.

    'Turning the other cheek' and sitting down don't apply to my operational mode, which is fairly easy for anyone to discern.
    Also, you make the usual non caring (along with 'Jimmy') assumption that 'riding' will continue to lead to worthwhile, productive and possible destinations. Time will tell.
    'Blistering' is not reserved just for 'tails', but inarguably occurs to habitats and other resources, too.

    Some discussion of foresight comes to mind - imagine.

    Bottom line - NPS is experienced, a large part of the American heritage, history etc., etc.
    Perhaps they will actually help find the path back to the middle ground and science based management in this ridiculously polarized atmosphere.

  7. #7
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Res is right on this one. This is a classic case of dual management brought on by ANILCA. The NPS didn't like the shooting of "their wolves" by the state last month. This is a knee-jerk reaction to that. Gotta agree, NPS generally isn't our friend in this state.

    Tim
    Well the only sure way to send a clear message back is simply the state STOPS giving permits for collaring wolves or other game to the feds... it is not that they don't want the collared wolf shot when it leaves the perserve... the want the Pack of that wolf left alone as well. and of the multiple packs in the YC ONE stays in the preserve.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Well the only sure way to send a clear message back is simply the state STOPS giving permits for collaring wolves or other game to the feds...
    What permit would that be?

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AlpineEarl View Post
    The NPS said they would do it if they did not get some concessions from the BOG.

    ADN article: http://www.adn.com/2010/04/13/122477...wolf-bear.html
    Didn't the chairman of the BOG tell them to do it?

  10. #10
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskaflyer331 View Post
    What permit would that be?
    NPS is required to get a permit from F&G to collar state animals..
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    When the locals finally get enough of their bullying, they will boycott the Parks Personnel from doing business with them. Make them bring in every thing they need, food, fuel, vehicles and people. Let them do what ever they want to do, but they should not ask nor expect help from Alaskan's. If individuals are willing to do business with the Parkies, they are selling the rest of the state's citizens short. Air taxi's, gas stations, lodges, cafes and stores have a right to refuse service to anyone, EXERCISE your rights...or...pay the cost. The only truely effective way to deal with a Bully, is the isoloate them.
    If the NPS and their employees were to play that game too, actually many other Alaskans would be the ones to be isolated. I say "other" of course, since people who work for those agencies here are Alaskans, many native born.

    Most people have no idea how much free services are donated to communities by the NPS and the USFWS. As an example, while the governor fiddled, who do you think spent the first 48 hours rescuing people from Eagle during the flood last year? Who really saved the Lake Minchumina post office from closing up shop? The NPS generally doesn't brag about it, and the newspapers generally don't report it.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    NPS is required to get a permit from F&G to collar state animals..
    ...when they aren't on NPS lands.

  13. #13

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskaflyer331 View Post
    If the NPS and their employees were to play that game too, actually many other Alaskans would be the ones to be isolated. I say "other" of course, since people who work for those agencies here are Alaskans, many native born.

    Most people have no idea how much free services are donated to communities by the NPS and the USFWS. As an example, while the governor fiddled, who do you think spent the first 48 hours rescuing people from Eagle during the flood last year? Who really saved the Lake Minchumina post office from closing up shop? The NPS generally doesn't brag about it, and the newspapers generally don't report it.
    All of this was done solely to protect the interests of the Parkies and their personnel. I realize that some up here have given into them and took jobs with them, doen't make it right though. Those people too should be cast out until they come to their senses and quit. Seriously, if I had a family member that worked for the Park Service, you can bet they wouldn't be invited to any of my family gatherings. They would be disowned by the whole bunch, guaranteed.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  14. #14

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskaflyer331 View Post
    ...when they aren't on NPS lands.
    Nope. The only animals in Alaska that the Feds have sole authority over, are the Marine Mammals. All the rest are managed through long term cooperative agreements or special permits on a case by case basis.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    All of this was done solely to protect the interests of the Parkies and their personnel. I realize that some up here have given into them and took jobs with them, doen't make it right though. Those people too should be cast out until they come to their senses and quit. Seriously, if I had a family member that worked for the Park Service, you can bet they wouldn't be invited to any of my family gatherings. They would be disowned by the whole bunch, guaranteed.
    No one who lives in minchumina works for the NPS. The people who were rescued from Eagle by NPS helicopter were whoever happened to be clinging to their rooftops at the time.

    But you can invite whomever you want to dinner.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Nope. The only animals in Alaska that the Feds have sole authority over, are the Marine Mammals. All the rest are managed through long term cooperative agreements or special permits on a case by case basis.
    That is not true on refuges and in parks. You and Corey Rossi need to attend the same training apparently.

  17. #17

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskaflyer331 View Post
    That is not true on refuges and in parks. You and Corey Rossi need to attend the same training apparently.
    Dang,
    I hate to hear that all those meetings and reams of paper were just a waste of time and trees. I mean can we now dispose of all these useless archives we've been paying storage fees on? Reference Please!!! I would love to see that stack of paper go up in smoke.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  18. #18
    Member jkb's Avatar
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    When did the NPS become funded by someone other than the tax payers anything they do with federal equipment is not a donation.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Except for the animals inside the NATIONAL PARKS,the animals in Alaska belong to Alaska. That is per the State Constitution approved by the Federal Government. Just USF&WL haven't figured that out yet, they think their regs trumps our Constitution. Someday they are going to get knocked off their high horse and make that realization.

    I have a friend that works for USF&WL, she told me most of the people working there are anti hunting and trapping anyway. They are pushing their own personal agenda.

    Corrie Rossi has it right, too bad some others are not of the same mind set.
    Gun Control means hitting your target.
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  20. #20
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeard
    I have a friend that works for USF&WL, she told me most of the people working there are anti hunting and trapping anyway. They are pushing their own personal agenda.
    Aw shucks, Roggie, the ol' "I've got a friend..." line sure gets old. I know a few USFWS folks, and they all hunt. Would imagine it is a broad spectrum though of staff, with plenty of non-hunters, but highly doubt very many at all would actually be anti-hunting.

    Regarding the Yukon-Charley closure, NPS had already asked the state nicely to try to avoid killing any of the wolves they have been monitoring in the Preserve, that the population had decreased, and if any were killed they may have to close the so-called "sport" hunting/trapping in order to protect the fed-qualified users who trap within the Preserve. Hard to believe ADFG killed those collared wolves really, but it happened, and it is what it is.

    Regardless of how we all feel about fed lands, differing agencies have different management guidelines, and they are bound by those guidelines.

    Right now the state (ADFG) is taking some pretty irresponsible stances imo. Rossi's ADFG op-ed that pred-control should be allowed on Preserve/USFWS lands for example, while it may be a great talking point and get support from many, would be like another agency telling the state they should eradicate wolves. The state can't do that because our laws and our management policy won't allow it. Same reason the feds can't allow pred-control on NPS and USFWS lands for the most part.

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