Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 54

Thread: APHA and the DNR Guide Concession Plan...

  1. #1
    Member AlaskaTrueAdventure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Paradise (Alaska)
    Posts
    1,543

    Exclamation APHA and the DNR Guide Concession Plan...

    So the DNR Comment period is over concerning the projected APHA/DNR Guide Concession Plan.

    I heard that the Dallas Safari Club is not allowing guides/transporters who guide in Alaska to have a booth unless they are members of the APHA.

    The APHA is sending messages to legislators and the governor on a regular basis and anyone who wants to be heard needs to be doing the same. If they don't, the squeaky wheel will get the grease.

    And another little piece of APHA crap.....Their professional membership had hovered at around 140 for several years. Following the DNR Guide Concession Area Abortion they initiated, their 2010 professional membership has been reduced to slightly above 100.

    The comment period is over, but IT aint over.

    dennis

  2. #2
    wolfwatching
    Guest

    Default

    Wow, I find this fascinating.. So the residential population of hunters is going to just sit back while the criminal population of professional hunters rape their land in disregard because the APHA has the money backup or the residential hunter just doest care?? Iím confused really..
    I suppose the residential hunter never chose to study the hunting industry of the lower 48. Everything is dictated by finances and the Ďoutsideí soon- to- be regulatory commission that doesnít give a crap about residents i.e. the regulations imposed upon residents to further financial goals.. Serious, residents cost the State a ton of money and the professional hunters PAY the state a lot of money..Gee..
    You all crack me up! Truly
    Iím sorry True Alaska Adventure but I donít think these folks really care enough to do anything..Reminds me of the Patriot Act..(rolling eyes and wolf yAwN)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaTrueAdventure View Post
    So the DNR Comment period is over concerning the projected APHA/DNR Guide Concession Plan.

    I heard that the Dallas Safari Club is not allowing guides/transporters who guide in Alaska to have a booth unless they are members of the APHA.

    The APHA is sending messages to legislators and the governor on a regular basis and anyone who wants to be heard needs to be doing the same. If they don't, the squeaky wheel will get the grease.

    And another little piece of APHA crap.....Their professional membership had hovered at around 140 for several years. Following the DNR Guide Concession Area Abortion they initiated, their 2010 professional membership has been reduced to slightly above 100.

    The comment period is over, but IT aint over.

    dennis

  3. #3
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    PUBLIC COMMENT is due by may 31... according to DNR rep this eve at the AC meeting they are then going to do a complete review of the comments and suggestions and revamp the plan and then...


    have another comment period...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  4. #4
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Talkeetna
    Posts
    5,714

    Default

    Wolfwatching..you obviously haven't paid much attention to this issue. There are a bunch of really good guides in Alaska that care deeply about hunting, preservation of hunting, and supporting resident hunters. They oppose the DNR and APHA way of doing things. It does nobody any good to lump all professional hunters into one group, particularly when some of them don't want game management going to the highest bidder outside Alaska interests.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

  5. #5
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    8,435

    Default

    i emailed APHA and asked that they remove my membership....
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,289

    Default AK

    Sounds like in Alaska its the in thing to fight amongst yourselves! Alaskan guides are at each other throats as bad as the residents are! You will all lose if you cant find a way to work together. Ive never seen anything like it, most places hunters get along pretty well guides and residents alike. Wolfwatching Im glad your an Alaskan,calling guides criminals, people you dont even know..... well shows what kind of person you are.... I have no doubt your confused.

  7. #7
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default Hey Vince...say what?

    Vince, the GCP public comment period closed on March 31 far as I know. Are you saying they extended it again?

    Can you tell us anything else the DNR rep said at the meeting?
    Thanks,

  8. #8
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Vince, the GCP public comment period closed on March 31 far as I know. Are you saying they extended it again?

    Can you tell us anything else the DNR rep said at the meeting?
    Thanks,
    told you what they said...but could have been written comment and my understanding was it was extended
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  9. #9
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default

    Vince, thanks for the reply, just don't want misinformation to get out there. I'm fairly certain the written comment period on the GCP ended on March 31.

    This is still up on the DNR page:
    The Public Comment Period Ended March 31, 2010 at 5:00 PM.
    DNR is not taking public comments for the Guide Concession Program at this time. You can view public comments made during the open comment period here.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    44

    Default

    I think the official public comment period is over. Now that the official public comment period is over, it is time to officially publicly complain about the real agenda behind the GCP put forth by the APHA and their posterchild BF. TrueAdventures is right, the APHA will continue to push their agenda to anyone who will listen and they will regain their lost ground if we don't speak out about the way the APHA/Bobby F./GCPsupporters would like to discredit the sacred way legitimate, personal guides conduct lawful guide business here. The APHA is loosing members faster than flees jumping off a road-kill dog. Many forum posters/public commenters/coffe shoppers/etc have made it clear that they think the APHA is immoral in many of the stands they/their members have taken recently. Factory type hunting operations that hire many assistants are the problem in the guide business. These factory hunting operations too often are focused on the kill instead of the experience and too often give in to the urge to break the law in the name of "another satisfied client". They use the airplanes and 4wheelers to spot/kill game in the name of "another satisfied client". The factory guide business does not truely appreciate the life lossed of a moose/sheep/bear when a tag is filled the way a one on one guide does. The factory guide business portrays the Alaska hunting fraternaty poorly when they pile up all of their antlers/trophies in their brochures/websites and they don't even know it.

    Factory guide businesses are not good for Alaska. Guides that break the laws and suggest unconstitutional regulations are immoral and their is no room for them in the legitimate business world. Assistants guides should be hired to assist guides, not guide hunters. They have been scapegoats for contracting guides who are breaking laws within their businesses and all of them need to be removed from the legitimate guide business. I think if the DNR was to remove the immoral guides, there would be plenty of room for the legitimate businesses to operate with excellence.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,289

    Default wolfwatching

    I hope this all works out for the best for all concerned. I said some things about wolfwatching that I shouldnt have and am sorry for it. I have made my living guiding and most outfitters I know are good ethical men. There are and always will be crooks but the market will take care of most of them. Again my sincere apology to wolfwatching, he has a right to state his opinion without me getting personal about it.

  12. #12
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Unit 13
    Posts
    1,471

    Default

    I was reading through the comments, and I just thought about the long term land lease agreements, are these actually out there? and If the GCP goes through, and these guides are no longer operating in these areas, Are law suits possible?

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

  13. #13
    Member AlaskaTrueAdventure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Paradise (Alaska)
    Posts
    1,543

    Default More (of the same...)

    Brwnbr, Wolfwatching, AKDoug, Vince, Dorfman, Bushrat, Yukon...hell, thanks for your interest, again.

    Wolfwatching...Although I don't think many guides and most resident hunters have become educated enough about this entire-lengthy-political mess to care enough to comment, I think they do care. Just not nearly enough. I still bump into or talk with guides who still do not believe this mess has got this far. As you expressed, their ignorance also astounds me. A few still believe they are protected under that old Owsichek court ruling. And when I explain the whole mess that has been going on for the last two years in public, and for 12 years in private, they just say "well then we will have another day in court in the future", as if that is a cheap and easy fix. It ain't. So I agree with you that those of us who remain informed (as well as possible) need to remain active by contacting our legslators and our current half term governor. The vast majority of resident hunters will never care enough about this deal to get up to speed on it, to fully understand it, much less write an email to their legislator.

    And as you and I have said before, it is always tough to organize hunters and especially guides. That egotistical part of us that makes us successful guides and hunters is, I believe, the same part of us that makes us resist being organized. I guess.

    AKDoug's last comment about "...particularly when some of them don't want game management (? guide management ?) going to the highest bidder...is especially interesting because, probably the only thing that all Alaskan guides agree on is that we are ALL AGAINST THE COMPETITIVE BID cocept that DNR introduced into the mix. Although APHA Exec Director B.F., BODs, club officers initiated this entire mess, even they do not support DNRs competitive bid crap. No thinking guide or hunter supports that concept. And by the way...this Guide Concession Program is not a concession deal with the introduction of "highest bids". It's now a lease program. A bad program/plan....worse than initially.

    Brwnbr...APHA removed my information from their stuff only 11 or 12 months after I first made the same request.

    Yukon...well your correct that we Alaskan guides don't seem to play well together. Please keep in mind that those of us who will be affected, aborted from the industry for no reason of our own, did not start this fight. We are simply reacting to this unjust threat. Do you Canadians really get along better? Is it a genetic, geographic, or cultural difference 'tween ya-al and us Americans and Alaskans? Perhaps if your testicles were getting sniped, or shredded, you too would react. Yes? No?

    Vince....at your A/C meeting...a DNR rep indicated that they would now further evaluate the comments??...revise their published, projected "application/questionair"???...have ANOTHER comment period???? (Please do expound further...)

    I sure hope so! The current revision of the projected application/questionair/bid crap is full of questions that can not be verified. Exactly as I warned against two years ago, the current deal is going to be a creative writing contest. And A long one. Again, no off-the-grid guide workin by generator lights and using a jelly jar full of number 2 pencils is going to be able to complete a competitive application for a concession area. This process needs to be aborted.

    Note that of the previous 111 DNR comments on their website, the overwhelming majority have been negitive, either somewhat or completely negitive. Very few, approx 10%, were mostly supportive. So with the vast majority having a very negitive tone, now we will again get to see how tone deaf DNR really is. The vast majority of guides want the BGCSB to manage guides and guide numbers, not a land management agency, the SOA DNR.

    Kent Dorfman...as usual, another well thought out and well written post on this subject.

    So where is all this going?
    I don't know.
    But I know what the APHA dudes "jokingly" told me for 12 years...that they wanted to crush the little guide services (wink), and the new guide-outfitters (wink-wink).

    And unless the "tone" of this deal dramatically changes soon, they will succeed at both. This "full term abortion" plan to eliminate many of us from a wonderful and honorable and worthy part of our lives and livelihood is unconscionable. If implimented, it represents an unjust loss of liberty to many honest and hard working Alaskan guide-outfitters.

    I urge each of you, each of us, to write yet another letter of protest to our governor and/or to a legislator. This DNR Guide Concession (Lease) deal, initiated only by the small group of APHA club officers and BOD members, needs to be aborted. Guides and guiding does not need to be managed by a land use agency, the DNR.

    And to each of us, both guides and hunters....good luck on the upcoming brown bear season. Lets all be safe.

    Dennis

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    44

    Default

    AlaskaTrueAdventure...I like your time saving shotgun approach to all of the comments...saves time right!

    I am not for the bid part you understand, but I think that is one of the things that HAS to be done in order to keep it legal. You notice that I said "I think" and not "I know" about that. A lawyer would know better than I.

    "I know" that if enforcement would team up with the DNR and put together a one question prospectus, we would solve the problem.

    [Have you or one of your assistants while under your contract, ever poached, taken big game out of season, guided out of your area, same day hunted big game, hunted without a license, or guided without "really being there"?] If so, go to www.jobs.com and look for a new job. All of those actions are done knowingly. So whether they were plead or somehow talked their way out of it, the contracting guide needs to be held accountable. When guides are looking at being eliminated from their livelyhood, it is only fair to eliminate the immoral guides first.

    Problem solved.

    Notice that it doesn't say "ever been arrested" or "ever gotten a ticket or citation". It asks if it has been done. The immoral guides have a lot of years of networking with the F&G, DNR, BOG, BGCSB and are great when it comes to white washing committed violations and passing the buck on to say "It was my assistant and I didn't know it was happening" or "let's plea down"...not good enough to legitimize immoral behavior.

    The only problem with that is the DNR and enforcement would have to stand up to the immoral outlaws (and they are the ones that cry the most about not being able to make a living). I say get rid of the abnormal guides, and let the normal guides keep making a living.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,289

    Default system

    ATA I understand the frustration guides up there are going through with this deal and IMHO the GCP is a big mistake for a number of reasons. Yes I think the outfitters here do get along better but that is probably due to our system than anything else. I still think you guys should look into Albertas system. The way your going now will ruin the industry down the road for younger guys that want to get into it.

  16. #16
    Member muskeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hollis
    Posts
    963

    Default Morality?

    "I think if the DNR was to remove the immoral guides, there would be plenty of room for the legitimate businesses to operate with excellence.
    Reply With Quote"

    Great now lets have rules based on morality?

  17. #17

    Default

    Suggest it might be a good idea for someone to copy and paste a listing of the current APHA Membership, so the "public" can readily identify them, without having to dig the info out.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  18. #18
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default Going too far..

    I know and greatly respect some APHA members. Great guides, honest ethical folks. Let's not go so far as to label everyone belonging to APHA as "immoral" or bad somehow, or tack that label on the org either. It ain't so.

    The more I learn about all this, the more I understand that indeed we do have problems and we need to find a fix. I can see all sides of it, and at the last BOG meeting I spoke with quite a few guides on it, sat down with Nate Turner too, who is on the APHA board, a guy I really like and respect. There are plenty of folks who'd like to see something similar to the fed concession program, and I'm not gonna fault them for that view.

    I'm still very unhappy and peeved with the last 2 years of double-talk coming from Bobby/APHA. However, that doesn't mean I disrespect the man personally...this wildlife politics is sure some interesting stuff I tell ya.

    It was interesting this March to find out just how many guides who were APHA members disagreed with how the GCP was panning out, and especially how many were peeved that APHA, via Bobby, was pushing for things like transferability. From what I gathered, there was a big schism within the org itself over this, and the APHA message definitely wasn't anything close to any kind of majority membership opinion, but rather the opinions of a small but powerful contigent of members.

    So it goes. Tough issue. A darn shame the Board of Game won't do what needs to be done and just look at specific areas that have problems, make those areas draw-only for all non-residents and limit the # of permits they give out.

  19. #19
    Member muskeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hollis
    Posts
    963

    Default SE Guides

    Many Guides in SE belong to the APHA.

    We have no dog in this fight as we Guide on Federal Lands and under the Federal Permit process ... a process which makes this DNR process look like Kindergarten !!!!

    The APHA has been nothing but helpful in many years of battles we have taken to the Fed level.

    Wilderness Needs Assessments; Transfer of Permits (sales of business) and the associated 30% hold back of our allocation during that transfer; Brown Bear; Black Bear and Mt Goat allocation issues; Visitor / Carrying Capacity processes; Federal restrictions on Deer hunting on POW Island restricting non-locally-federally qualified hunters; recently fall Black Bear restrictions in unit 1,2,3&5; and most urgent and the current 'hot' issue of Murkowski's SB 881 / Young's HR 2099 Sealaska lands trade legislation ...... just to name a few.

    Without the help of the APHA hunting in SE would not be the way it is today ... resident or non-resident. And I mean changes for the betterment of all hunters.

  20. #20

    Wink

    If the guides with Morals are dropping out of the APHA as fast as some proclaim, why then are some so fast to come to the rescue of the remaining group. I personally have removed myself from many organizations over the years that did not fully meet my personal goals and values.
    We need to examine why some are willing to desperately defend the APHA Membership and their goals. Challenge their thinking and dis them at every opportunity or they will spin things around to where nothing will stop the bleeding.

    Post the names of the culprits for the "public" to see just who they are. Peer Pressure is the greatest tool in todays market. Even if they just get a few cancelled bookings from it, it will give them a wake up call. It will also help the "public" to know who they are when they meet them in the field, so they can be wary of them.

    If folks get "labeled" as a bad guy, most will change their ways. Pretty easy to modify their behaviour, even if you can't modify the individual.

    It is not reasonable to expect the Average Joe to determine who is the good ole boy and who is the boogy man, without a great deal of research and understanding. Paint them all with the same broad brush and smoke 'em out. If the Organization is a bad one, then all that are involved share the title. If you expect help from the "public", you have to maintain their trust and show them you are sincere. For anyone to think they can acertain a couple of the good guys from a bunch of scoundrels is beyond my way of thinking. Personally knowing one or two is the worlds worst way of judging someone. It is far easier to judge a complete stranger than an aquaintance. Nope. I say name 'em, post 'em and label 'em. Let the public judge 'em. Believe it or not, most can think for themselves without the 'help' of others telling them who to root for.

    Or...continue talking among yourselves and going in circles.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •