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Thread: Chuit River is NOT closed!

  1. #1
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    Default Chuit River is NOT closed!

    Recently there has been some confusion about the status of the Chuit (Chuitna) River. The Tyonek Native Corporation did try to get possesion of the river by arguing that it is non-navigable (essentially submerged land, a bog not a river). They obviously had a friend at the BLM who came out and took a look at the 30 foot wide river and said "That's no river."
    The owner of the Chuit River Lodge screamed bloody murder and finally enlisted the help of Senator Ted Stevens and suddenly it magically turn back into a river
    So for the record the river is NOT closed! Check the Alaska Fish and Game site if in doubt.

    zink

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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Unhappy He had a little help

    The owner of the Chuit River Lodge had to do a lot more than just call Ted. Prior to that I had gone to the UAA archives and found numerous references to using the river to float logs down and build the saltery at the mouth. This commercial use defined the navigability of the river.

    More threatening is the coal mine due to start next year. They already have a permit that allows them to pump 7 million gallons of mine waste a day into the Chuit. With all the talk of Pebble, this little coal mine is going forward. It is proposed to be a 300' deep strip mine with an impound lake of millions of gallons of waste water. Talk about threaten the moose, salmon and whale populations.
    There is a meeting at the BP building on Wednesday at 5, concerning the permitting.
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    Default What a shame

    Very depressing! It is such a beautiful river, In August when the Silvers are in you can walk for miles and miles without ever seeing a footprint. Also a great river for sight fishing Kings.
    zink

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    you know we really outta have a stream access law like Montana does.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    We do. You can travel any river in this state as long as you stay below the mean high water mark. This is the same as Montana.

    In Montana if you come to a man made barrier in the water you may come onto shore to go around the barrier. But if it is a natural barrier you may not trespass to avoid the obstacle.

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    and in Montana you can access any stream by crossing any land as long as its not posted with no tresspassing signs and if there isn't a bridge or something the landowners must provide an easement. I'm glad to know we have that law, sure I'll piss off a few land owners but...
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  7. #7

    Smile Chuit River Lodge Kings are showing up

    Had to resurrect an old post since the Native corp is at it again, they have armed security gaurds running people off and actually telling fisherman they can't stand in the river since they own the river bed, here is what the Fish and Game has to say about it.

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/SARR/...chuit.overview

    Also if you go to Google and search for Chuit River Lodge a banner comes up telling you the web site may have viruses, however if you go right to the site everything is fine, my computer has some of the best virus protection available it it doesn't show anything wrong.

    http://www.chuitriverlodge.com/

    Some one with more computer savey then a 65 year old lodge owner is looking for any way to disrupt his business.

    I spoke with Fish and Game yesterday and they assured me that they and the DNR are doing everything they can to keep this from happening and recognise the fact that Chuit River Lodge only has about 2 and 1/2 months to book fishing clients for a whole years income and having armed guards running clients/ tourists/ residents off the river again this year could sink them.

    I encourage anyone who is interested in this to take a proactive approach to this, it is not about a lodge having access to one of our rivers it's about any of us who are not in the Corp. having access. I talked with Dave Ryland at Fish and Game 267-2341 about it and maybe if they hear from enough resident fisherman they may give it more attention.

    One more great thing about the Chuitna River is you can fly over on Spernak Air round trip for $150.00 it takes about 25 minutes and they have about 4 or 5 scheduled trips per day into Beluga, if you call Dennis at Chuit River Lodge he will pick you up at the airstrip and feed and house you for not a whole lot of money, you can also take a gun with you and harvest a very nice black bear if you want to.

    I am not affiliated withn Chuit River Lodge but have had very nice stays there and hope this fishery is available for all of us to continue to use.

    Thank you for allowing me to Rant.`
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  8. #8

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    Thanks for the update on the chuit. I have been there several times. It is a great place to visit and I would be very disappointed to have something happen to this river. We all need to help do what we can to keep this open for all to enjoy. I personally will be making a call to the F&G.

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    Default clarification

    From the ADF&G website:

    Q. "May I stand in the river (below the Ordinary High Water Mark) without getting a land use permit?"
    A. The south half of the lower nine miles of the Chuit riverbed was conveyed by BLM to TNC along with the uplands to the south. TNC views any public use of the south half of the riverbed itself without permission as trespass. While TNC requests that members of the public seek its permission for any activities which make use of the south half of the river bed, it is clear that the public may stand and walk on the bed of the NORTH HALF of the Chuit River, from mid-channel up to the ordinary high water mark. The "ordinary high water mark" can usually be identified by the vegetation line along the bank, or other distinctive signs such as erosion, shelving, or changes in soil character caused by action of the water.

    So for the first nine miles of the river, as measured from the salt, access w/o a Tyonek land permit is only allowed on the north half of the riverbed, including the area up to the normal ordinary high water mark.

    That said, I've had good and bad experiences with native corp enforcement....bad on the Alagnak (asked us to camp in a swamp, while we were standing on the beach), good on Afognak (gave us a lift after we shot a deer, pointed out where they had seen a good one)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zink View Post
    Recently there has been some confusion about the status of the Chuit (Chuitna) River. The Tyonek Native Corporation did try to get possesion of the river by arguing that it is non-navigable (essentially submerged land, a bog not a river). They obviously had a friend at the BLM who came out and took a look at the 30 foot wide river and said "That's no river."
    The owner of the Chuit River Lodge screamed bloody murder and finally enlisted the help of Senator Ted Stevens and suddenly it magically turn back into a river
    So for the record the river is NOT closed! Check the Alaska Fish and Game site if in doubt.

    zink

    The Tyonek Native Corp. does own parts of the river, including out to the middle of the river in parts, but it has never been totally off limits. They've been trying pretty hard to get more of it closed off to the public. This isn't surprising at all though. They've received a bunch of land up above the Superior Air strip and they are pretty sirly about anyone setting foot on it. They have a security company over there patrolling the roads regularly.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowe & Slow View Post
    if you call Dennis...
    What is Dennis' last name? If it's the Dennis I am thinking of, I would NOT book with them. PM if you want to know why.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Default Chuit Steelies!

    If people knew about the Steelhead run it would be even harder to keep them out.
    OOP's I don't believe I mentioned that! Well, while were on the subject I could mention the 20lb'er I caught about this time of year a couple years ago. And that upon showing it to one of the locals, he confessed to catching them regularly!
    Mike

  13. #13

    Unhappy The bigger issue

    We can all have opinions about why we would or would not book with a lodge but lets not loose sight of the real issue.
    There is a corporation having armed guards running residents off the river telling them that they can be in the water but can not walk on the bed of the river because although the water is not theirs the ground is. I know it sounds completely crazy but it happened this week.
    I don't care if it's a large Corp, a Native Corp or a private individual when they start trying to keep us from using one of our natural resourses with bullying tactics or even if it's just to run a lodge out of business so they can take the land we need to stand against them as Alaskan sportsmen, it's similar to standing up against the Anti-Whatevers, if they win one small battle they next step is always larger.
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    They don't own the whole Chuit though, so my issue is, are they running everyone off the entire river or just what they own?
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  15. #15

    Default The whole river

    A little clarification about who owns what.

    Since the river is navigatable they can not own it, they do own the land around it and can actually own the river bed however since it is a navigatable river everyone can use it up to the high water mark, also there are public access points along the river that are open for the public to get to the river. They are pushing people off the whole river even right at the public access points, there claim is they own the ground so you can either hover above the river or float on the water but not step on the ground, however if you want to stay at their fishing lodge and pay them they will see fit to forgive you for the tresspass.
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    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default Not a steelhead!

    A few years ago I was fishing the north side of the Chuit. A uniformed (or uninformed) man approached me from across the river. Wading thru my hole didn't improve the mood.
    When told that I did not have a permit, he said I was to leave and not come back. He was wearing a Pinkerton uniform. I asked him where he was from. He lived in Nevada. I said no SOB from Nevada was going to kick me off of a river I had fished for longer than he had been alive.
    He then rolled his pump shot gun off his shoulder and laid it across a log between us. It was aimed about 3" to the left of my leg. I reeled in and calmly leaned over and opened my canvas fish sack. When I stood up I held a 454 in my hand and pointed it at the center of his chest. I don't think he expected that! He exclaimed that I was assaulting him. I told him that the next time I am on the river alone and a stranger points a gun in my direction that I would not hesitate to protect myself. As he hotfooted it across the river he said the law is on the way. Good.
    30 minutes later the trooper helicopter landed. The rent a cop came out of the trees. After much exchange the trooper told me to stay on my side of the river and for him to get his facts straight before he makes a threatening gesture with a gun. He then made the Pinkie leave and then flew off. No one has ever asked me for a permit since. Yes, they are running innocent people off of the river. Most people don't fight back. I have never held a gun on a person before and it is scary. But not as scary as being on a river alone and thinking this nervous punk could shoot me and tell any story he wants.

    In what is now 30 years of fishing there, I have never seen a steelie. I thought I had caught one on the Beluga, but F&G said it was an Atlantic salmon. They get a red blush down their sides and look similar to a steelie.
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    Default Don't cha just love an EXPERT!

    I think it's just great that a guy can have SUCH VAST KNOWLEDGE of a subject that he can determine the specie of a fish that he has never seen. I don't remember asking anyone to tell me what I caught and never posted a picture either.
    I can imagine there's two sides to a story involving someone of SUCH VAST KNOWLEDGE.
    I suppose I better just go scratch my watch cause I obviously don't know how to wind my A--!
    P.S, the only red blush is on my face at the moment.
    Mike

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    So that lame security company is running people off, great. Good thing I'm not planning on doing any fishing there this year. This is a huge load of BS though. I'm trying really hard to bite my tongue and not say something stupid but this really is infuriating!
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  19. #19
    Supporting Member bullbuster's Avatar
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    Default First liar....

    Quote Originally Posted by Alasgun View Post
    P.S, the only red blush is on my face at the moment.
    Mike
    Your face should be red after that post.
    I took my fish's picture to F&G, they identified it as an Atlantic salmon. I stand by my statement, in 30 years of fishing the Chuit, I have NEVER seen nor heard of a steelie in that river.

    There are no documented populations of steelhead on the Alaska mainland west of the Susitna River and north of the Chignik River system. (Ak Dept of F&G)
    Be careful winding your arse, you might get a hook in it.
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    Default Whew!

    Except for the arrogance dripping off your certainty, the only other thing that stands out to me is the "AFTER 30 YEAR" part.

    I guess if I were trying to keep this anouncement low key and not generate a larger crowd at my fishing hole, I'd be inclined to blow up like a puff adder and look all knowledgeable so as to convince folks they were waisting their time.

    Well, it aint working, and I guess I'm done with this silly argument. Come look me up next time your over, I'll be the guy with 1/2 a dozen German tourist, standing in your hole! (fishing for steelhead!)

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