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Thread: Rifle Buyin'

  1. #1
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Rifle Buyin'

    Hey fellers, it's getting about new rifle time around here. I have been thinking about getting something to shoot from the bench a lot without it beating all hades out of me. All my hunting rifles are belted mags with exception of my Whelen, and it ain't no slouch in the recoil department. I am not recoil shy, but not stupid either and don't really enjoy shooting an 8 lb 375 H&H very much to stay proficient.
    Anyway, I have found a Winchester Varmint (Special?) I can't remember what the barrel was stamped with, but the rifle is a 26 inch barrel heavy contour 308 and has great looking rifling. It has a blued receiver but stainless barrel, and it all looks like it came out of New Haven that way. I don't think it was a custom barrel judging from the markings. They looked factory. It also has what looks to me like a Bell and Carlson stock. (I have 3) Can anyone tell me much about this particular variation of Winchester? Oh yeah, it's a "pre-64" style. But made just within a couple years back. I like this thing and the price is right, but I would like to know if any of you guys have any of these Winchesters and how they shoot??
    I am a Remington 700 kind of guy so I don't know how these rifles shoot in comparison. Anyone?? Thanks for any replies.

    Mark M

  2. #2

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    I saw one that fits your description being shot at Brownells range last fall. It was shooting itty bitty groups of around an inch at the 200 yard mark.

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    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default 60 rounds today 270wsm

    I just got back from the range after 60 rounds of handloads with not even a hunt of sore shoulder...

    I went for a 270WSM for the sake of all the stuff it could kill and still let me enjoy learning to handload and shoot like crazy at the range. I got a Sako 85 cause I found a great deal on a fine shooting rifle with only 15 rounds thru it (used), probably not necessary to go high end like that but it does shoot really well. had a couple .26", and .33" groups and not one over 1.77"

    But it is the caliber that I am impressed with, man that kicks like a .22, well a bit more but you can shoot all day long and it will kill a lot of stuff, maybe only Coastal Bear is over it's head.
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  4. #4
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Bears!

    You could certainly kill a coastal bear with a 270.. been done for many years. But I don't want to be the guy backing you up. I am chicken and ain't afeared to say it!
    Thanks for the word guys, especially that info from Brownell's range. Oh, I also hate you for that dude. If only...
    If I order anything else from Brownells, my wife will leave me. I sure will miss her...

  5. #5
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Coastal backup?

    I was thinkin' Coastal as in Brown Bear, it probably has been done with .270 and I actually think I could probably kill one with 270wsm maybe 160 gr partition but,

    Don't think I'll try, or at least I could never admit it on the hunt report for these forums "would be slaughtered by the ethics police"

    My backup would be the 12ga w/3"magnum slugs slung around my neck, shoot that'd probably work fine, eh?

    So, Whelenator, what'd ya buy? Still waffling on us or forget about us? with your "New Gun Report" and pics,

    It's been Four Days now.
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  6. #6
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Default

    My 270wsm stays home when I go the island but for range time it is my most enjoyable rifle to shoot, hands down! As KR said it isn't much more than shooting a 22.

  7. #7
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Default

    I own 2 of the new Winchester Model 70s, one in 325wsm and one in 270wsm. I bought the 325wsm for myself and was so impressed with it that I bought my wife one.

    IMHO This is without question best production rifle I have purchased. They are both sub MOA shooters.

    Steve

  8. #8
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Default

    My thoughts, and a bit of history. When I moved up here I had a .308, but got bit with the need a bigger gun bug. That resulted in me building a 35 whelen ackley, and having it re-chambered to a 350 Rigby Mag. That was followed with two 458 lotts, a 500 Jeffrey and a 350 rem mag.

    I finally figured out that if I wanted something that was fun to shoot off the bench, I needed to get something smaller. I picked up an older rem 700 varmint in .223. For punching paper and fur bearers, nothing beats the .223 in non existant recoil, acccuracy and affordable ammo. If you don't have a .223, you need at least one. You'll wonder why it took you so long to get one, and you'll enjoy extended range sessions.

  9. #9
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Rifle Purchase

    Hey fellers. Well, sorry to take so long to get back on here. I finally found a neat rifle, and grabbed it while the getting was good. I am tired of missing deals because of one thing or another. The "or another" is usually money!
    I found a Winchester Mod 70, push feed 308 Heavy Varmint 308. I had been wanting a 308, some for zombie exterminating, but mostly for shooting at the range and not getting beat up. Anyway, I put my Burris 4.5-14 on it to get to the range Sunday, and here are the results of a couple groups. I am having trouble with my sizing dies or something so my groups with the handloads couldn't be fired. The bolt won't close on them even after 2 full length sizings. Either this rifle has a very tight chamber, or these Hornady dies have issues. We'll see after some measurements. Check out these groups. Not bad for a windy day. More work to come.
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  10. #10
    Member kodiakrain's Avatar
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    Default Awww you dog

    You Dog, that's Awesome, Nice Shootin'

    should be a blast to reload for... (pics of the Gun?)
    Ten Hours in that little raft off the AK peninsula, blowin' NW 60, in November.... "the Power of Life and Death is in the Tongue," and Yes, God is Good !

  11. #11
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default No pics yet

    sorry, I haven't had the time to pose it up and get any pics yet.
    I am having trouble loading for it so far. The loads I did build did ok sighting it in at 25 yards. I then fired these factory rounds and then came back to the reloads. I managed one crappy group with some Sierras but the wind was ripping my target stand all over the place down there and so I cut my losses and came home smiling. For some reason, the rounds won't chamber without a hammer to close the bolt. I think my dies are having issues, or possibly the brass is ultra long. But I haven't ever had that happen where I couldn't even chamber a shell before. do any of you have any experience with model 70's and possibly having real short chambers???

  12. #12
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Default

    IMHO, It is not your rifle. I'm guessing that you might be new to reloading????

    Did you not test your resized brass in the chamber of THAT rifle to determine how much to size them??? If not with your rifle UNLOADED adjust your die by the instructions, resize a case and attempt to chamber it, if it chambers continue the process, if not adjust your die down a little repeat until your brass will chamber then continue the process.

    What is your freebore measurement??? Are you sure you are not forcing the bullets into the rifling???? My Winchesters both have long magazines and it is possible for me to hit the rifling with my reloads. This is desirable for me, I like being able to load rounds into my magazine and still have them as close to the lands as I want to load for.

    Did you trim your brass??? It could be bottoming out in the chamber if it is too long, this can could a crimping action and cause high pressure.

    Forgive me if I repeated information that you are aware of already.
    Good Luck
    Steve

  13. #13
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Tight Brass

    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    IMHO, It is not your rifle. I'm guessing that you might be new to reloading???? Nope, been loading since early 90's.

    Did you not test your resized brass in the chamber of THAT rifle to determine how much to size them??? Yes, but my normal method is to full length size all my brass especially for hunting loads. This 308 is the first rifle that I have the opportunity to "neck size" as it's only a paper buster. If not with your rifle UNLOADED adjust your die by the instructions, resize a case and attempt to chamber it, if it chambers continue the process, if not adjust your die down a little repeat until your brass will chamber then continue the process. No amount of sizing is working on this rifle, or brass. INSTRUCTIONS???? HA HA HA HA HA HA...I haven't used a set of instructions for a set of dies since I started. But that's only because I just usually set the dies to full length size and be done with it. My normal method is to set the shellholder to hit the die enough that I need a bottle jack to push the press handle!! Just kidding but you get the idea. I still haven't taken my measurements on my brass, we have a newborn and are a little busy. But when sizing brass with a very firm pressure shellholder to die, the brass should fit the gun., and the bolt should close easy enough. This is not happening, so I feel I either have a very tight chamber, or the dies aren't quite right. My factory loads work perfectly, so this is why I suspect the dies. The dies SHOULD get the brass at least somewhere close to what the dimensions of the factory brass is, and the bolt should close on them. I will take the measurements in the next day or 2 and report.
    Right now, the starter is out on my truck and tonight I have to finish rebuilding that and reinstall it. No loading tonight. Got to have transportation first.

    What is your freebore measurement??? I have no method to check freebore, but I feel this rifle may have a fairly tight chamber. I'll find out when I take some measurements on the brass. Are you sure you are not forcing the bullets into the rifling???? Yes, I am sure. Tested that with COL gauge and trial and error. Tested the sized brass in rifle without bullet seated and still tight. My Winchesters both have long magazines and it is possible for me to hit the rifling with my reloads. This is desirable for me, I like being able to load rounds into my magazine and still have them as close to the lands as I want to load for. Me too, depending on the load use.

    Did you trim your brass??? I did not trim, but it measured out ok. It could be bottoming out in the chamber if it is too long, this can could a crimping action and cause high pressure. I do want to trim just for good measure though and re-check this.
    Forgive me if I repeated information that you are aware of already.
    Good Luck
    Steve


    Thanks for the ideas I will double check everything as soon as I get my truck back up and going. Likely by the weekend I can work on the 308 stuff.

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    Default Same issues

    I have the same rifle but chambered for the .220 Swift. It is a tack driver when I do my part. I only recently have gotten around to reloading for this gun but am having almost exactly the same issues but not to the same extent, my bolt handle closes but with additional force required. I am also using Hornady dies, the New Dimensions.

    I had your exact issue (full length size and bolt is almost impossible to close) with my Kimber .325 WSM last fall and I was only able to fix the problem by taking a few thousandths off the top of my shell holder so the shell went into the die farther. I am not sure why this is happening, has anybody else experienced this? The .325 dies are RCBS.

  15. #15
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Sizing

    JH, maybe these manufacturers are just making these rifles with such high tolerances and chamber dimensions that our meager efforts just won't cut it. We need to be shooting that "good" factory loaded ammo. Might as well throw away all my reloading stuff.
    all kidding aside, I plan on calling Hornady tomorrow if I can take some measurements first. I have been busy this week so I haven't had the time to mess with this issue until now.

  16. #16
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default New Rifle Info and Measurements

    308 Winchester Model 70 case dimensions
    I first measured the Cartridge Overall Length using a Stoney Point (Hornady) COL tool and found that with a 168 grain Ballistic Tip, I get 2.937 inches. This is base to tip of bullet measured with bullet all the way against the rifling.Next I measured the fired cases and these measurements are as follows.
    Fired brass at largest portion of cartridge base:
    Federal Premium Match 168 Gr Factory Load--.4695 for 3 rounds measured
    Factory HSM 168 Berger VLD load--..4695 for 3 rounds measured
    RESIZED measurements HSM brass--.4670
    On hand Federal brass from 168 gr Ballistic Tip handload, 46 Grains Varget –RESIZED-.4680
    I made these measurements, but honestly, I have never had to bother with doing them before. Like I posted earlier, most of my loading has been really straight forward and simple. No issues to speak of. I just size the brass, go by the book and rounds downrange. Can any of you see anything here that would tell you anything about my sizing issues? I forgot to take a length measurement, will do that this evening. And trim some brass and retest also. Thanks again.

  17. #17

    Default

    Whelenator if you want to give my Redding FL 308 dies a try just let me know.

  18. #18
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Dies

    WG, I don't think I will need them at least for now. I have to take a couple more measurements and then trim my cases and then try them again and see where we are. Thanks for the offer, I still need to stop by your house sometime soon. Got some goodies for ya.

  19. #19
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default Interesting Find

    Well, Friday night I took a length measurement and this 308 Federal brass was nearly 30-06 length......ok, exaggeration there but it was looooooonnnnngggg.
    Well I trimmed it and seated a Ballistic Tip at a good SAAMI length, and colored the shoulder/neck junction. The bolt again closed with resistance. I then said the he*# with it, let's see if the shellholder can be trimmed. So I ran it on my DMT course diamond stone for a good while and sized with good resistance in the linkage. According to the pic, that is the third case from the left. No closing line. Well, the bolt closed much easier, much as it would on a factory round. I then made a couple more, no marker and tried them as well and they closed fine as well. Any comments as to why these dies would be "short chambered". I have at least 5 or 6 sets of Hornady dies, and another 3 brands, but none ever cut this way. What is the deal?

  20. #20
    Member Whelenator's Avatar
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    Default oops, missed the pic

    I must have forgotten to add the pic of the brass on the last post.
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