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Thread: 2 vs. 4 stroke transport newbie ?

  1. #1

    Default 2 vs. 4 stroke transport newbie ?

    A friend of mine transports his 2 stroke jet on its side (carbs up) with oil remaining in the motor. Hasn't ever had a problem.

    I used a my new 4 stroke jet last year and did the same transport. I was reading my owners manual and it said to drain oil first before a transport as it could enter the cylinders.

    So, how bad have I screwed things up. 1 move with oil. How can I tell when we have no ice?

    Thanks guys

  2. #2
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default Place the motor on a stand...

    ... remove the plugs, and turn the motor over numerous times until any oil is removed from the jugs. You could sqirt some sort of thinner oil in, even kerosene or the like, to speed the process. Make sure the plugs are clean before you replace them, top off the oil, and you should be good to go. How do I know this works? I transported my Honda 90 that way once and had to do as I have described.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimii3 View Post
    A friend of mine transports his 2 stroke jet on its side (carbs up) with oil remaining in the motor. Hasn't ever had a problem.

    I used a my new 4 stroke jet last year and did the same transport. I was reading my owners manual and it said to drain oil first before a transport as it could enter the cylinders.

    So, how bad have I screwed things up. 1 move with oil. How can I tell when we have no ice?

    Thanks guys
    Your friend with the two stroke that gets aways with setting it on its side with oil in it, is because two strokes don't have oil in them. Many four strokes can be transported on their side, but you have to be careful of which side as it can get into the cylinders. If it were mine and I was worried, I would pull the spark plugs and turn it over a few times to get any oil out of the combustion chambers. It will not run with oil in the chambers and attempting to start it could do damage, but it is unlikely you'd even be able to turn it over at all. I would be extremely leary of putting any thinners in an engine as noted in a previoud post as some of those thinners are extremely caustic and will eat rubber and plastic components. The oil (if there even is any) will come out just fine by turning it over. After getting the oil out, it should be just fine and just like it was.

  4. #4
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default The "previous post"

    Quote Originally Posted by T.R. Bauer View Post
    Your friend with the two stroke that gets aways with setting it on its side with oil in it, is because two strokes don't have oil in them. Many four strokes can be transported on their side, but you have to be careful of which side as it can get into the cylinders. If it were mine and I was worried, I would pull the spark plugs and turn it over a few times to get any oil out of the combustion chambers. It will not run with oil in the chambers and attempting to start it could do damage, but it is unlikely you'd even be able to turn it over at all. I would be extremely leary of putting any thinners in an engine as noted in a previoud post as some of those thinners are extremely caustic and will eat rubber and plastic components. The oil (if there even is any) will come out just fine by turning it over. After getting the oil out, it should be just fine and just like it was.
    Thinner lubricants... no sweat, if you have oil in your jugs. Check first. I would recommend kerosene from a squeeze bottle as it has a bit of lubricant quality itself, but is thinner than engine oil. I have used it several times in the cylinders of frozen engines to free rings. Regardless, there are no rubber or plastic components in the combustion chamber of an engine to worry about.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    Thinner lubricants... no sweat, if you have oil in your jugs. Check first. I would recommend kerosene from a squeeze bottle as it has a bit of lubricant quality itself, but is thinner than engine oil. I have used it several times in the cylinders of frozen engines to free rings. Regardless, there are no rubber or plastic components in the combustion chamber of an engine to worry about.
    Sayak,

    Nothing wrong with your post as it was good advice and kerosene is safe enough. As you said, it won't hurt anything, but I think you can see that if the oil has gotten past the rings and into the combustion chamber there is probably more than enough lubricant in the top end already. Yep if the motor is frozen due to rust, dump it in as there is nothing to lose at all. And like you pointed out, kerosene, liquid wrench, or equivelant often breaks the rings free and it will now run. Like you, I have seen that work a miracle. However, it is the carb cleaner, the brake cleaner, and all the other stuff that someone unknowingly may put down there thinking it is going to help the situation when in fact all it will do is go right past the rings and into the oil (thus diluting it and removing its lubrication properties) and in a few hours (or minutes) the bottom end bearings are shot. Also, while you noted there is not rubber in the combustion chamber (you're right) there are on the valve seals in the immediate vicinity and valve guides do leak a bit. Kerosene won't hurt them, but some of those other "thinners" will do them no good and may even destroy them completely. Not looking to pick a fight or argue as I think your post is fine, just don't want to see anyone wreck a good engine by putting an unsafe thinner down into the compression chamber that could possibly cause some damage.

  6. #6
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default T.R.- I never said "thinner"

    Quote Originally Posted by T.R. Bauer View Post
    Sayak,

    Nothing wrong with your post as it was good advice and kerosene is safe enough. As you said, it won't hurt anything, but I think you can see that if the oil has gotten past the rings and into the combustion chamber there is probably more than enough lubricant in the top end already. Yep if the motor is frozen due to rust, dump it in as there is nothing to lose at all. And like you pointed out, kerosene, liquid wrench, or equivelant often breaks the rings free and it will now run. Like you, I have seen that work a miracle. However, it is the carb cleaner, the brake cleaner, and all the other stuff that someone unknowingly may put down there thinking it is going to help the situation when in fact all it will do is go right past the rings and into the oil (thus diluting it and removing its lubrication properties) and in a few hours (or minutes) the bottom end bearings are shot. Also, while you noted there is not rubber in the combustion chamber (you're right) there are on the valve seals in the immediate vicinity and valve guides do leak a bit. Kerosene won't hurt them, but some of those other "thinners" will do them no good and may even destroy them completely. Not looking to pick a fight or argue as I think your post is fine, just don't want to see anyone wreck a good engine by putting an unsafe thinner down into the compression chamber that could possibly cause some damage.
    If you go back and look you'll see I said "thinner oil".

  7. #7
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default

    First off, get the motor on a stand or transom so you can check the oil level w/ the dipstick. You may not be able to tell if just a few ounces have transfered, if on the other hand the oil level is noticeably low than you at least know how much oil to expect.

    It doesnt really matter much as the procedure is the same and some oil in the top end is not going to hurt anything as long as you get as much out as possible before trying to start the motor.

    So pull all the plugs and if possible turn the motor over by hand, (some motors you can put a rope on the flywheel). If this is a large 4S you may need to access the nut by removing a cover so you can roll the motor over w/ a wrench or a socket. This could be messy as the excess oil will come out the plug holes.

    You didnt say what size motor or how many cylinders, but if oil has entered the cylinders, the amount would most likely vary from cylinder to cylinder.

    Once you have rotated the motor over by hand and at that point if there is much oil it will be obvious, you should be able to observe the oil as it comes out. When it is down to a minimum, connect the starter and turn it over, bump the starter switch slowly at first, what you are trying to avoid is a hydraulic lock, (which will not happen with the plugs out, but still good to proceed slowly). At this point its nice to know just how much oil may have gone into the top end.

    Once you have purged the oil slowly, then you can hold the starter button on for a little longer, say 5-10 second burst, you may see a fine oil spray coming out of the spark plug holes. do this untill there is very little oil coming out.

    Now you should be able to install the plugs, dont forget to top up the oil and start it up, expect it to smoke some but will clear up fairly quickly. If you really want to feel good, install a new set of plugs when your done.

    I myself would not squirt anything into the cylinders, the idea is to get the excess lubricant out not add more liquid that could dilute the lubricating qualities of the engine oil.

    Good luck, let us know how it works out..............
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks guys - I'll sleep better tonight!

    I'll let you know when the ice is off. :-)

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