View Poll Results: What drawing system would like to see in the future?

Voters
281. You may not vote on this poll
  • One winning permit per person per year

    64 22.78%
  • One winning permit per household

    9 3.20%
  • Preference point

    84 29.89%
  • Random draw...ie no change

    124 44.13%
Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 150

Thread: Permit Changes...whats your vote?

  1. #1
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    8,457

    Default Permit Changes...whats your vote?

    Curious what folks see coming down the road for alaska's permit system, preference points? more drawings?
    just thought a poll right now would be a good feeler to see whats on everyones mind.
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    13,393

    Default

    A vote for no change on my end. It is not the role of government to make things "fair" by trying to dole out equal amounts of everything. As long as everyone has an equal chance in the drawing (truly random), that's as fair as we can ask for.

  3. #3
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,008

    Default

    I have been very lucky in Alaska's drawing hunt system and my heart goes out to those who have gone decades without scoring. For that reason I see AK eventually adopting a preference point system modeled after WA state's: Hunters who don't draw get a point. If they apply successively for the same hunt they continue to accumulate points until they draw a tag. Their name goes into the lottery an extra time equal to the number of points they have.

    Using AK as a for-instance, say the point system was in place since 2004 and you, me and Brian M apply for DS-102 in 2010. You've applied for the past 5 years unsuccessfully, Brian just last year and me for the first time. You (Jake) get entered once for your 2010 application plus once for each point for a total of 6. Brian's in twice and I have only one chance.

    Under this model I, as a first time applicant, might still luck out and draw a tag anyway, and Jake might not but he's 6 times more likely to, and Brian is twice as likely.

    Under the Colorado system tags are awarded to the hunters with the highest point totals first but this only works for hunts with a relatively low tag-to-applicant ratio. If applied to, say, the Delta Bison (bull) hunt...let's see...70 tags....10,000 applicants...it would take 1,400 years to draw a tag.

    I'm also opposed to buying pref points as is allowed by both WA and CO.

    I also think the highest demand (by virtue of applicants) tags should have a longer cooling off period before a hunter is eligible to reapply again. I'm thinking 3 to 5 years.

  4. #4
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    the cool off period is good to.
    we are currently limited to applying for only 3 tags of any given specie so they've allready got it narrowed down.
    I think it would be neat if it was a drawing for one tag per year.
    Enter all your specie in a rank of 1-whatever, first choice on down...more people would get a chance to draw a tag and it would actually mean something to them. less wasted tags, more opportunity for people to get a chance at a special hunt and keep it from going to a point system that gives sympathy points for those who don't draw. it would stay random, but more folks would have the chance at a hunt....just my thoughts.
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

  5. #5

    Default

    I have won my share of permits over the years. And think the system is pretty random and to me that is as fair as it gets. But......

    That said, either the system is flawed or this is the luckiest dude ever!!!

    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DC590
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DE715
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DG336
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DM772
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DX103

    No, I don't know him... But I would like to shake his hand.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    north pole
    Posts
    634

    Default Random

    have to agree with Brian M as long as its truely random and fair. I believ any method to give out permits would have its drawbacks and advantages no system is perfect.

  7. #7
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    It is truly fair the way it is, the Washington points system means you will pretty much eliminate the chance for kids to draw as they won't have the years in.

    I put in for pretty much everthing except Ox and managed to pull a couple tags. One was high percentage the other not so much. I always pick some high odds tags and usually between me and the wife someone gets lucky. As my kids get older they will be added to the mix and will have the same opportunity. I get a kick out of the people that complain about not being drawn when they only put in for a few tags and sually low percentage ones at that. I put in for 3 elk, 3 moose, 3 goat, 3 caribou, 3 sheep and a couple Bison. I also put the wife in for Moose, bou and bison.

    So I put in for 17 tags and my wife put in for 8. Of those 25 tag applications we drew 2 and one of them was the high percentage Kenai Mts. So far together my wife and I have drawn 5 tags in three years out of the 75 or so we have applied for. We have about a 6.5% success rate for drawing tags so as long as I put in for more than 20 and keep the balance between high and low odds tags we will most likely walk away with something. For you investors out their just think of it as a balanced portfolio. If you throw all of your money in one high risk fund (tag) you will probably go broke. If you invest more wisely you too can enjoy a more consistent 6-7% ROE.

  8. #8
    Member icb12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kenai
    Posts
    1,038

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    It is truly fair the way it is, the Washington points system means you will pretty much eliminate the chance for kids to draw as they won't have the years in.

    I put in for pretty much everthing except Ox and managed to pull a couple tags. One was high percentage the other not so much. I always pick some high odds tags and usually between me and the wife someone gets lucky. As my kids get older they will be added to the mix and will have the same opportunity. I get a kick out of the people that complain about not being drawn when they only put in for a few tags and sually low percentage ones at that. I put in for 3 elk, 3 moose, 3 goat, 3 caribou, 3 sheep and a couple Bison. I also put the wife in for Moose, bou and bison.

    So I put in for 17 tags and my wife put in for 8. Of those 25 tag applications we drew 2 and one of them was the high percentage Kenai Mts. So far together my wife and I have drawn 5 tags in three years out of the 75 or so we have applied for. We have about a 6.5% success rate for drawing tags so as long as I put in for more than 20 and keep the balance between high and low odds tags we will most likely walk away with something. For you investors out their just think of it as a balanced portfolio. If you throw all of your money in one high risk fund (tag) you will probably go broke. If you invest more wisely you too can enjoy a more consistent 6-7% ROE.
    Sums up my thoughts nicely.

  9. #9
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    A vote for no change on my end. It is not the role of government to make things "fair" by trying to dole out equal amounts of everything. As long as everyone has an equal chance in the drawing (truly random), that's as fair as we can ask for.

    i agree with Brian also.. it may take me many years to draw a tag but i eventually will...

    there are still PLENTY of general season hunts a person can take and no need for limiting point systems to it.. there is not one species here that I MUST draw to hunt anymore. though i do soon see sheep in the AK range going to draw only in the near future.. just DUE to the amount of competition for it. and prolly see the brooks going that way in the next 10 years or so..

    as for moose? tags just make hunting EASIER, there are still moose to harvest if and that IF you take the time to go do it... but unfortunatly... many are not willing to dedicate the necessary time to fill a general tag... mine took 23 days of hunting last year many gave up after 3-7
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  10. #10
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    2,133

    Default

    I say one per person a year. That would really help with some of us who just dont have the luck. And yeah by us I mean me I had alot of faith in this random thing the first decade i have been appling, this last decade no. im sure my Dad after 30 years is frustrated (only 1 cow tag) but he handles it alot better than me.

    In those years I have met people with 3 tags, but they just applied for all 3 species or what have you in the hopes to just win one as that was all the time and money they had time for. 2 tags wasted!

    I do like that system in 20a where if you get a cow tag that is what you have to shoot. I bet I know a dozen people who get cow tags, then shoot a legal bull. they should just do that statewide

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Kodiak
    Posts
    552

    Default

    Ditto on what brian says. No change!

  12. #12
    Member oakman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    The only change I would like to see is where you can return a permit if it isn't going to be used and then have an alternate list that just moves up as permits are turned in. This way if a guy wins multiple permits and can't use them he can give one up so someone gets a chance. Also if a guy gets injured, can't go for financial reasons, etc. it gets used. This could be especially true for non-residents when they start looking at guide fees, plane tickets, tag fees, etc.

  13. #13
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    8,457

    Default

    one tag per year, would still be random.
    it would give kids a better chance at a draw hunt, keep the youth/wives in the ball game.
    and as you know, if your wife or kid draws...you get to go hunting!
    the way the system is now is just a muddy puddle.
    one of he posters said he'd draw eventually...if its truely random...why are you going to draw eventually? the point of random is that you might NEVER draw or draw every time.
    one tag a year would increase your chances at drawing a random tag, i'd don't think i'd feel to bad for the guys who pull tags each year, since there are still harvest hunts out there....
    vince,how you hunting buffalo without drawing a tag?

    more stuff is going drawing and when it does, how are you going to feel when bob next door cleans up on tags and you don't have any cause its just a random muddy puddle...less harvest hunts are coming, getting a system in place that would increase hunting opportunty i think is a good idea. look down the road...think about it....
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

  14. #14

    Default What Brian Said

    I am with Brian 100%

  15. #15
    Member Milo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    A vote for no change on my end. It is not the role of government to make things "fair" by trying to dole out equal amounts of everything. As long as everyone has an equal chance in the drawing (truly random), that's as fair as we can ask for.
    Exactly. How often does increasing government involvement make things better, not worse? I say this as an employee of a government myself. No, not adfg so don't chew my a#@ about that

  16. #16

    Smile no change, except...

    I voted for no change. Yup, another year with no permits for me. But I only put in for one this year for a whole bunch of reasons. Since my time in the hunting camp is getting closer to the end a change I would be in favor of is if they went by how long you have lived in Alaska and how old you are. But that would benefit me and leave a bunch of other Alaskan resident hunters with less of a chance. The other change I would be in favor of is if there is a need to limit a species to a draw or antler/horn restriction then all the permits or antler/horn restriction areas are open to residents only and if all the permits are not taken whats left could be offered to non residents. But that would hurt lots of guides and Alaska should always have big game guides. The word "fair" is often interpreted to mean what benefits "me". So I voted to leave it as is even if I am not a very lucky person. Congratulations to all who won a permit!

  17. #17
    Member Vince's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks most the time, Ancorage some of the time,& on the road Kicking Anti's all the time
    Posts
    8,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    one tag per year, would still be random.
    it would give kids a better chance at a draw hunt, keep the youth/wives in the ball game.
    and as you know, if your wife or kid draws...you get to go hunting!
    the way the system is now is just a muddy puddle.
    one of he posters said he'd draw eventually...if its truely random...why are you going to draw eventually? the point of random is that you might NEVER draw or draw every time.
    one tag a year would increase your chances at drawing a random tag, i'd don't think i'd feel to bad for the guys who pull tags each year, since there are still harvest hunts out there....
    vince,how you hunting buffalo without drawing a tag?

    more stuff is going drawing and when it does, how are you going to feel when bob next door cleans up on tags and you don't have any cause its just a random muddy puddle...less harvest hunts are coming, getting a system in place that would increase hunting opportunty i think is a good idea. look down the road...think about it....
    well i guess i forgot about that one jake I have never made plans to hunt those anyway... prolly never will at my rate

    BUT there are other buff hunts with better odds is i want to spend the $$$$
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

  18. #18
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    13,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oakman View Post
    The only change I would like to see is where you can return a permit if it isn't going to be used and then have an alternate list that just moves up as permits are turned in. This way if a guy wins multiple permits and can't use them he can give one up so someone gets a chance. Also if a guy gets injured, can't go for financial reasons, etc. it gets used. This could be especially true for non-residents when they start looking at guide fees, plane tickets, tag fees, etc.
    If that happened, though, they would have to give out significantly fewer tags overall. They factor in the historical participation and success rates when determining how many tags to allocate. Some hunts have close to 100% participation (like Delta bison), so they only give out about as many tags as they want animals harvested. Other hunts have much lower participation and/or success rates (Kenai Mountains caribou), so they give out many more tags than the desired harvest. If tags were passed along, it would dramatically cut the chances of winning one in many hunts.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    Curious what folks see coming down the road for alaska's permit system, preference points? more drawings?
    just thought a poll right now would be a good feeler to see whats on everyones mind.
    I'll tell you whats coming down the road, lower and lower quality of hunting than this state has ever experienced! We have lost more and more land available to us each and every year, reduced predator control due to politics means less ungulates, larger and larger military bases means more hunters. A draw system that rewards a first year hunter more than a 30 year statesman....based on LUCK. Add that all up and the results are hunting that sucks! I am not a 30 year Alaskan, but I can tell you that the hunting up here has gone to chit in the last 15 years I have been here, in more ways than one. And FWIW, I dont get all wriled up for not drawing tags, I never draw em so I dont expect to. I just donate about $100 a year for the sake of it. Everybody has this belief, that Alaska is this amazing place to live and hunt, and it was....at one time. Anymore, the number of hunters combined with the limited access means you may as well be elk or deer hunting on a logging road in Gunnisson Colorado, you'll see about the same amount of people as you do here. And all this for what??? So that you can savor the 6 months of cold azz winter, and overpriced EVERYTHING? You all let me know how that works out for you!

  20. #20
    New member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    2,022

    Default

    I like one tag per person per year or two tags, I also like a cooling off period. There certainly should be a limit to how many tags a person can draw in a year, 3,4 or 5 tags is crazy, I think it very likely that most who come out of the draw with that number of tags has the resources or time to invest in all of that opportunity.


    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DC590 - Western Talkeetna
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DE715 - Afognak Island
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DG336 - Spencer Glacier
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DM772 - Middle Chatanika River
    METZ A PAUL FAIRBANKS AK DX103 - Southwest Unit 22, Seward Penninsula

    This demands some substantial travel in time and expense for a person out of Fairbanks ( or most any place). The moose permit is a local permit and I think maybe the least likely to be pursued or a fall back hunt when compared against the other prized species.

    I am only guessing but, I think Paul will be having the agonizing experience of having to choose 1 or 2 of these great permits to hunt. Or perhaps Paul has a great deal of time and resources at his disposal.

    Of course if I where the one to be so lucky to agonize over such luck I am sure I would choose the Elk and Ox hunts if I could afford the two of them.

    Good luck to all the permit winners and particularly to Paul.



Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •