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Thread: 6" G20/21 10mm or 460 Rowland xd/m&p?

  1. #1

    Default 6" G20/21 10mm or 460 Rowland xd/m&p?

    Trying to decide on my next plastic auto handgun purchase. I don't have that many guns. I prefer to get to know a few guns intimately and use them for multiple purposes. I plan to carry this as backup while archery hunting both in Alaska and the L48, when I am flying, and possibly some social concealed. My only experience with plastic guns is my HK USP 9mm. Honestly, I have not really spent much time with this one, just too good of a deal to pass up years ago.
    I have started doing a bunch of searching/reading, but have never been around or fired any of these models. Yesterday I fondled a g20/21 regular and short frame(think I prefer the SF) and a XD 5" Tactical(seemed to point more naturally than glock).
    I had originally planned on just getting a G20 and then purchasing a LWD 6" slide/bbl. I see Advantage Arms has a 22 conversion kit available for this 20/21 which I would also purchase.
    This would give me cheap trigger practice and some small game hunting capabilities, stock slide for social carry, and long slide for hunting backup all using the same frame.
    As I researched glocks, I found out that the frame is the same on a 20 and 21. So I could get a 21(.45) and then the long slide and 22 conversions. This would give me a less expensive stock ammunition option.
    Then I stumbled across the 45 acp to 460 Rowland conversion. Looks like more powerful round for hunting backup and the ability to shoot less expensive 45 ammo for practice or social carry. Unfortunately, looks like not available for Glock, so no 22 conversion.
    A few of my questions are:
    1. I haven't seen anything comparing a long slide 10mm to a 460. Anyone have experience with both of these?
    2. Are there 22 conversions for the XD or M&P that I am not aware of?
    3. Is it difficult to shoot a glock and then shoot anything else with a 18 degree frame?(But like I said earlier, I really haven't shot my HK much)
    4. Any good forums, threads etc other than on this site you like to follow pertaining to these plastic guns, conversion?

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    I don't know anything about the 460 Rowland, so I can't compare it to a 10mm. As for questions 2-4:

    2) I could be wrong, but I do not believe that either the XD or the M&P have .22 conversion kits.

    3) No, it is not at all difficult to shoot a gun with a 1911 grip angle simply because you're use to Glocks. I also own a USP and I can barley tell the difference when I switch between it and my G17.

    4) Some good forums to check out are Glocktalk.com and XDtalk.com.

    As for which one you should get, they're all reliable, but I'm a big Glock fan (mainly because I think the XD and M&P are ugly as sin). If you have time, watch this guys video reviews of the three guns. He's one of the best reviewers out there for stuff like this (granted, these are all 9mm's, but his critiques apply pretty much across the board)....

    Springfield XD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVprHSjspsA

    S&W M&P: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mdnOQH2rrA

    Glock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=866LWMsvUsc

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    Member chriso's Avatar
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    I own the glock, and a 1911 in 10mm, and a 1911 in 460 rowland, and a M&P converted to the Rowland.

    I like them all fine, but theres dang sure no missing the difference in horsepower when you shoot the Rowland over the 10mm...

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    Hey Chriso. How do you like the 1911 compared to the M&P. I'm trying to decide which pistol to buy to have a 460 Rowland conversion done. I'm leaning towards the M&P or XD due to the weight.

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Well I can't really answere your questions. I can say though that I have G20 with the LWD long slide, kKM bbl 6". I have that .22 kit on order. Lots of options for the G20-21. Yes you can convert that 21 to 20L and the .22 kit still. For a back up gun it will be a good choice. Not sure about concealing it well=possible.

    The rowland though in XD anyhow I know nothing about, but forum members here in the recent past have they expect them to blow up at some point. They said it is not a matter of "if" but a matter of "when". So that turned me off and I quite looking. I don't like having a bunch of guns not being used either. Other makers I still don't know much, 1911's might be much better.

    I like the glock. I like the Double tap 230gr hardcast. I like the LWD long slide. Better hurry up and get the Long slide before they sell out. I can get a long slide a bbl for you or anybody with free shipping and match their prices.

    Ultimately do your research and buy what looks the best, feels the best, and what you like the best. Our opinions are just that, opinions.

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    Not sure who said they expect the 460 in an XD to blow at some time but I would think they are spewing forth a line of BS. I don't know why the XD with more steel in critical areas would blow up and a Glock wouldn't when opoerated at approx. the same pressures. In fact I have seen several "blown up" glocks in 10mm and no XD failures.

    Pick whichever suits your fancy, I'm a wheelgun guy, but I know what I would choose in your shoes.

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    Thanks for the info so far.
    Don't remember where I read this, but someone was being critical of a conversion on a gun like the xd or m&p that didn't have a 10mm model. Someone else stated that a 40 had pressure very similar to a 10. If the pressures are indeed similar and a xd or m&p can handle a 460 conversion, then why can't a 460 conversion be done on a glock or for that matter a HK or other non 10mm makers?

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    Member The Kid's Avatar
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    The Glock and HK do not have a fully supported chamber like an XD.This is why when you look at a 10mm casing fired in one or even a Colt Delta for that matter they will often times have a slight bulge over the feed ramp, where the rear of the case is not supported. They also have little peices of sheet metal for the slide rails as opposed to the XD and MP's solid block of steel that the slide rides on.

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    I have not yet gotten to the phase of looking up tech specs for these guns or the conversions. Anyone happen to have them handy?

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    Member chriso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc240 View Post
    Hey Chriso. How do you like the 1911 compared to the M&P. I'm trying to decide which pistol to buy to have a 460 Rowland conversion done. I'm leaning towards the M&P or XD due to the weight.
    To tell the truth its kind of a tossup, with my vote going slightly towards the 1911 due to its being slightly less cumbersome to carry comfortably, and that I can shoot it slightly better (when you're as poor a shot as I am, every bit of help counts!)... plus... its a 1911 and thats got to count for something right?

    On the other side of the coin, the M&P feels a bit lighter, but is slightly bulkier, holds a couple more rounds in the mag, allows the flexibility to fire 45acp for practice purposes, and was (I think) one of the best values per dollar I've ever spent in the firearm realm... I still cant believe the price I got it for, I think I'm out 650 total with the conversion and all. A 1911 conversion at that price point would most likely be a pretty junky thing, and in the 1911's you probably wont want to fire the 45 acp in them without changing out the barrels.

    Probably the best technical information about the Rowland on the web is at the Clarks Custom Conversion site. If I'm not mistaken, Clarks is offering the conversion kits for the M&P and XD now compliments of our own at WWG, and of course his work was groundbreaking in the 1911 conversions. There is an informative YouTube clip with Johnny Rowland discussing the cartridge if you do a search over there.

    Here's the link to Clarks: http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/

    Hope that helped some, if you feel like shooting them drop me a note, I get home again in about 10 days and could probably use some coaching on my shooting techniques anyway!

  11. #11

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    Nice informative thread, my thanks to everyone.

  12. #12

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    460 Rowland Reloading
    Data / Chart


    NOSLER 185 JHPAA NO.5 - 14.5 grains 1503 FPS 38,400 1.250 IN. **
    Hornady 185 JSWCHodgdon Longshot 12 grains 1413 FPS 34,700 1.240 IN.
    Hornady 185 JSWCHodgdon Longshot 13.5 grains 1503 FPS 38,800 1.240 IN. **
    Speer 200 JHPHodgdon Longshot 12 grains 1372 FPS 34,300 1.225 IN.
    SPEER 200 JHPAA NO.5 - 13.5 grains 1437 FPS 38,400 1.190 IN. **
    Speer 200 JHPHodgdon Longshot 13.8 grains 1456 FPS 39,400 1.225 IN. **
    HORNADY 230AA NO.5 - 12.5 grains 1342 FPS 39,400 1.250 IN. **
    Hornady 230 XTPHodgdon Longshot 10 grains 1207 FPS 32,200 1.27O IN.
    Hornady 230 XTPHodgdon Longshot 12 grains 1336 FPS 39,200 1.27O IN. ****MAXIMUM LOADS

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    If you go to www.realguns.com, the .460 XD evaluation should be up, if not, stop by for a copy

  14. #14

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    Glock 21 Drop-in 10mm 6"


    All KKM barrels are made using U.S. manufactured 416 Stainless steel bar stock which is then heat treated and vacuum tempered to 42 to 45 RC. All Barrels are CNC machined to obtain superior dimensional tolerances. Using our unique Button Rifling process, all KKM barrels offer superior accuracy over stock barrels. Our Glock barrels come with fully supported match chambers for shooting factory or reloaded ammunition as well as lead or jacketed bullets.

    Wouldn't a barrel like this be 460 Rowland conversion material? It says it is fully supported.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    If you go to www.realguns.com, the .460 XD evaluation should be up, if not, stop by for a copy
    The Wild West Guns 460 XD article is up on the RealGuns subscription service now. The article will appear on the free access section of RealGuns on April 19th. Sorry for the lag, but it's away for us to publish ahead of the schedule and at least get them in queue.

    We wrote one of the .460 Rowland articles and some of the handload data noted on Clark Custom site. That was several years ago. It is a nice conversion, well made, but it has some limitations in size and weight and operation because of the 1911 platform. The Wild West XD conversion, at least in my opinion, advanced the 460's usefulness to another level. Compact, reasonable in weight and easy to shoot, I think it took the cartridge from interesting, or fun to shoot, to a serious gun to carry in wilderness areas.

    The plan was to do a quick operation write up, but we ended up spending a a good deal of time at the bench working up new heavy bullet handloads. The cartridge is pretty spectacular for such a straight forward autoloader and the gun makes it easy to shoot accurately. We had the office crew, including my wife, out shooting the gun at our back range to gather impressions. The gun never skipped a beat and no one put it down because of recoil. For shooting comparisons we were able change back and forth between the .45 ACP set up and the .460 Rowland; three parts and 30 seconds for the swap.

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Not sure who said they expect the 460 in an XD to blow at some time but I would think they are spewing forth a line of BS. I don't know why the XD with more steel in critical areas would blow up and a Glock wouldn't when opoerated at approx. the same pressures. In fact I have seen several "blown up" glocks in 10mm and no XD failures.

    Pick whichever suits your fancy, I'm a wheelgun guy, but I know what I would choose in your shoes.

    The comments are in one of the conversion threads that were going around in the last few months. One for sure is a customer of WWG. He posted the info along with another fellow. Do a search you will find it. It was fairly recent. They say the guns are showing signs and they don't shoot the .460 that often to prolong the life of the guns. It was interesting info and changed my mind on the conversion, not that I was ready to buy on anyways. Maybe just needs heavier springs to dampen recoil. All I know is that my 10mm with a 22# spring is not showing any signs of being beat up. KKM is fully supported chamber.
    Just relaying info that I thought was helpfull and honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    The Glock and HK do not have a fully supported chamber like an XD.This is why when you look at a 10mm casing fired in one or even a Colt Delta for that matter they will often times have a slight bulge over the feed ramp, where the rear of the case is not supported. They also have little peices of sheet metal for the slide rails as opposed to the XD and MP's solid block of steel that the slide rides on.
    Common man, there is not sheet metal in there! Shooting the heavy stuff, get a KKM, Lone Wolf, Storm Lake or whatever brand barrel you choose.

    Only gun I have heard of blowing up lately, couple weeks ago at the range, was a XD .45!! Forum member witnessed it!! So just do your research and make your best decision. Many options out there and many are good choices.

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    Member chriso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akrstabout View Post
    They say the guns are showing signs and they don't shoot the .460 that often to prolong the life of the guns. It was interesting info and changed my mind on the conversion, not that I was ready to buy on anyways. All I know is that my 10mm with a 22# spring is not showing any signs of being beat up.
    Well Chris, my experience so far the guns have been a wash as far as signs of wear go... of course, I dont slamm endless numbers of your DoubleTaps through my 10's for a steady diet, no more than I shoot endlessly the Rowland stuff through my conversions. One of the nicest thing about both the 10 or the Rowland conversion, is the opportunity to shoot the cheaper stuff for your practice, and the good stuff for when you're carrying (IMHO) You know how much I love the 10's, but even I cant deny that the Rowland is far more of a handful when you pull the trigger. That could be desirable, or not, according to the shooters uses. Or be like me, undecided and owning both! (My next move is to talk with someone about making me a commander sized Rowland since I cant make up my mind about the "perfect" sized one!)

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriso View Post
    Well Chris, my experience so far the guns have been a wash as far as signs of wear go... of course, I dont slamm endless numbers of your DoubleTaps through my 10's for a steady diet, no more than I shoot endlessly the Rowland stuff through my conversions. One of the nicest thing about both the 10 or the Rowland conversion, is the opportunity to shoot the cheaper stuff for your practice, and the good stuff for when you're carrying (IMHO) You know how much I love the 10's, but even I cant deny that the Rowland is far more of a handful when you pull the trigger. That could be desirable, or not, according to the shooters uses. Or be like me, undecided and owning both! (My next move is to talk with someone about making me a commander sized Rowland since I cant make up my mind about the "perfect" sized one!)

    I was considering a 460 rowland. Still might in the future. If the guys see this thread and want to post the info again that would be cool. The one guy is not local but he called me one time and told more info. He loves the gun and conversion! But him telling the signs of the wearing and what he expects and then posting on here also just made me slow my thinking for now. I am sure it was the XD 45, have not heard anything about the 1911's.

    Not bashing on gun makers or WWG, just repeating what I read and how it affected my decision. 44mag power in a light auto is awesome! Personally I want to shoot some bears with my 10mm first then upgrade if I choose. Happy shooting.

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