Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Certification Question?

  1. #1
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default Certification Question?

    Okay, I've got a question for the respected folks here.

    Background:
    48yrs old, can pass the flight physical, 10 years ago had 50+/- hours into a PART 135 private pilot program out of the Elmendorf Aero Club. (152's and a SWEET 180hp 172).

    Current:
    Now, I of course have no desire to get my commercial license, or even really ever carry passengers. My entire desire to fly is to get back into it for fun (without passangers), and my previous flights in a SuperDecathalon and a Great Lakes (open cockpit) were the BEST flying experiences of my life.

    Question:
    What would be the most logical way to get back into flying enough that on occasion I could go RENT an aerobatic aircraft and go have some fun? (with instructor is okay...I don't even have to be solo...but of course that would be MORE fun eventually).

    Can this be done with the sport pilot certification? Do they even still HAVE that certification? Would that be a mistake? What type of certification do I need (and would be best...I'm not trying to save money, exactly..well sorta...But mainly I just want to take the most direct route to what I need to fly aerobatics for fun on occasion...and maybe learn to fly a Sport Glider sometimes also. (glider port nearby).

    In fact, I don't mind even having an instructor being with me each and every time.
    I don't need the "Pilot in Command" label, exactly...just want to be able to go up and fly upside down on occasion...and learn to be "one with the aircraft".

    I'll never have enough money or time to persue much else, or ever own my own aircraft. Too late in life/ too much distractions, and other financial limitations.

    Just want to get back into some of the most fun I've had in my life.

    I can pay YOU GUYS to do the commercial/flightseeing/float flying when I need THAT. I like to run the Camera on THOSE type of flights anyway. Just want to get back into FUN flying of aerobatics (and maybe gliders) myself.

    Any advice?
    Any advice on doing this in Arizona?

    Thanks folks.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    96

    Default

    As a former EDF Aero Club instructor I'm sorry you didn't finish your flight training when you had the chance. When you were flying at EDF you were doing your training under part 141. You can finish the training for a Private Pilot license under Part 61 which is a less structured program. There are lots of places for flight training in Arizona and surely one near you. If you still have your log book I would take it and start going around to some of the local flight schools. Talk to them about your prior flight training experience and tell them exactly what you want. I would say that getting your Private Pilot certificate makes the most sense. With that you can do more advanced training, not necessary towards another rating but just to advance your skills. Maybe rent a plane once in a while and also get some exposure to aerobatics. If you get a Sport Pilot Certificate you will not be able to fly PIC in any of the aircraft you mentioned. I don't know of any aerobatic Light Sport aircraft but there may be some out there. If you have an Airplane Private Pilot certificate you can fly Light Sport aircraft but with a Light Sport certificate you cannot fly normally certified airplanes. (Does that make sense?)

    With the Airplane Private Pilot Certificate it's pretty easy to get a Glider add on rating. I don't know where you are in AZ but I fly with the Tucson Soaring Club and it's about the best deal your going to find in aviation. Check out the web site
    http://www.tucsonsoaring.org/

    You could also give up the idea of an airplane certificate and get a Private Pilot Glider certificate instead. You can fly aerobatics in gliders as well. Hope this helps.

    BTW the EDF Aero Club now has a Float Plane program. You can get an add on Seaplane rating at the club and then rent the float plane. There's very few places you can rent a float plane but EDF is one of them.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    East Haddam , Connecticut
    Posts
    111

    Default

    Well your flight time counts, I assume you have your logbook. With that being said, you can do a Sport Pilot Certificate, no Medical is needed as long has you never failed an FAA Medical and hold a Drivers License. What you do is find a flight school and an instructor you can get along with and take it from there. There would be a little bit of work to get you to were you were proficiency wise and a check ride. Should be able to bang out a Sport Pilot Certificate by the end of summer. And I think you meant Part 141.

  4. #4

    Default

    If you can get a current medical I wouldn't worry about a LS license. That's for rich guy's in bad health who can buy $100,000 "entry level planes".
    Given your background, I would say a lot of the skills are in your head already, you just need to refresh them. Go to a flight school, plan on 5-6 hours with a CFI[quality time- in the pattern, 45 degree turns, etc-no tracking VOR radials BS].
    you will be be amazed at how much more confident you will feel with the rust knocked of. Then you will be better able to decide where you want to go.
    Quit talking about it and go flying!

  5. #5
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    OUTSTANDING responses folks! Thank you.

    Yes, it was part 141...not sure what wierd part of memory I pulled part 135 from. But, that's what Sun City AZ will do to ya. When only part of your memory is gone, we call it HALFsheimers here...not full ALLsheimers.

    Great advice, and I'm tearing the house UPSIDE DOWN looking for my log book. It's gotta be around here, but my wife does me favors and "cleans up" my stuff (ie: hides it) for me. I wanted to look at the comments section on a previous stage check ride also.

    Time to start squirreling away the pennys.

    Jim, your point about getting some quality time "in the pattern" is well taken. CAN I also go and get Aerobatic Instruction right now (like this next weekend), even before I go get my flight medical/student license again? Or do I have to be a "certified" student pilot to get instruction. Also, can I go to Tucson and get Glider instruction as a student without a current medical/student license?

    It's no problem to pass it (borderline Blood Pressure issues 140/80) but it wouldn't hurt to go on the veggy diet for a month or two first and bring it down. Just so there's no issues. Eyesight and hearing aint what they used to be either, but should be fine. (just can't read the fine print in the dark resteraunt!). I tell you, this getting old stuff (48, and holding) AIN'T for wimps.

    In the meantime I want to GO FLYING!

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    96

    Default

    You do not need a student pilot license (medical) to take flight instruction. You only need a student pilot license to solo. If you are going to start taking instruction toward a certificate or rating you will need to show proof of US Citizenship (passport) to the flight instructor prior to starting instruction. You shouldn't need to show proof of citizenship for training that is not given toward a new certificate or rating (such as just going up and doing some aerobatic flying). I don't know who you are considering doing your aerobatic flights with but I'd be real surprised if they turned you down because you do not have a pilot license.

    A Medical Certificate is not required for glider training or a glider pilot license. That's one of the reasons you see so many old geisers flying gliders. Another reason is that Glider flying is a lot cheaper than airplane flying. Obviously you can go a lot more places with an airplane than with a glider but if all you want to do is go out and have some fun, gliders would be a good choice. Also you are not required to show proof of US Citizenship for training toward a glider certificate.

    Blood pressure over 155/90 will disqualify an applicant for an FAA Medical so you have a way to go, however 140/80 is not good if you want to be around to enjoy flying in the future.

    Have fun.

  7. #7
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tralika View Post
    Blood pressure over 155/90 will disqualify an applicant for an FAA Medical so you have a way to go, however 140/80 is not good if you want to be around to enjoy flying in the future.

    Have fun.
    Thank you Tralika. Working on the diet to reduce that...but that darn 9pm sweet tooth kills me. Now going to diabetic websites for dessert ideas (even though I'm not diabetic) to attempt to help combat that 30lbs-over problem.

    And thank you for the clarifications and great info. I LOVE the Aerobatic Glider idea. I don't think it gets much more PURE flying than that...and a person could sure learn to be a pretty good (intuitive) flyer that way.

    Hey, also..how long ago were you instructing out at EDF? Anytime in the late 90's? Any ARS time?

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    520

    Default

    If you're in Arizona, you might want to look up this guy: http://www.airbum.com/

    He's someone I'd like to meet. I've been enjoying his magazine articles since I was a kid. He has a Pitts he instructs in and I get the impression a couple hours with him with would be some valuable experience. Even if you don't look him up, perusing his website is a kick...all things aviation and lots of other cool stuff....Louis
    Louis Knapp

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tralika View Post
    You do not need a student pilot license (medical) to take flight instruction. You only need a student pilot license to solo. If you are going to start taking instruction toward a certificate or rating you will need to show proof of US Citizenship (passport) to the flight instructor prior to starting instruction. You shouldn't need to show proof of citizenship for training that is not given toward a new certificate or rating (such as just going up and doing some aerobatic flying). I don't know who you are considering doing your aerobatic flights with but I'd be real surprised if they turned you down because you do not have a pilot license.

    A Medical Certificate is not required for glider training or a glider pilot license. That's one of the reasons you see so many old geisers flying gliders. Another reason is that Glider flying is a lot cheaper than airplane flying. Obviously you can go a lot more places with an airplane than with a glider but if all you want to do is go out and have some fun, gliders would be a good choice. Also you are not required to show proof of US Citizenship for training toward a glider certificate.

    Blood pressure over 155/90 will disqualify an applicant for an FAA Medical so you have a way to go, however 140/80 is not good if you want to be around to enjoy flying in the future.

    Have fun.
    I wonder on that. Don't forget you have to be towed up.

  10. #10
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Yes, it's pretty spendy here locally, but I'm hoping Tucson is a bit less expensive. Worth a look see.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    96

    Default

    Okay you non-believers. The Tucson Soaring Club is just that, a club with no paid employees. All of the work that needs to be done at the club (including tow pilots) is done by the members. To join the club the fee is $400, membership dues $65 a month. That gives you unlimited use of all the club gliders (no hourly charge). The club has 4 two seat gliders, 3 single seat gliders and 2 tow planes. A tow to 3000 feet AGL costs $25, when the lift is working people get off lower and the tow costs less. When the lift is working you can fly for hours on that tow, as I said there is no hourly charge for the glider. The club has instructors available at an additional charge for getting glider pilot licenses. They charge an hourly rate (I'm not sure of the current rate). Unless you have a rich uncle with a plane your not going to find a better deal in aviation!

  12. #12
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tralika View Post
    Okay you non-believers. The Tucson Soaring Club is just that, a club with no paid employees. All of the work that needs to be done at the club (including tow pilots) is done by the members. To join the club the fee is $400, membership dues $65 a month. That gives you unlimited use of all the club gliders (no hourly charge). The club has 4 two seat gliders, 3 single seat gliders and 2 tow planes. A tow to 3000 feet AGL costs $25, when the lift is working people get off lower and the tow costs less. When the lift is working you can fly for hours on that tow, as I said there is no hourly charge for the glider. The club has instructors available at an additional charge for getting glider pilot licenses. They charge an hourly rate (I'm not sure of the current rate). Unless you have a rich uncle with a plane your not going to find a better deal in aviation!
    That sounds FANTASTIC!
    Tralika, do you have a guess how much an instructor might cost me for some time in the 2-seaters. And do you have a contact name that you can PM me? Any Aerobatic rated Gliders there? This could be the EXACT answer to my prayors. Tucson is an Hour and a Half from me (easy drive). I've been wanting to get to Eloy down that way also.
    Summer has the best thermals too, huh?


    If this works out for me, please PM me with an address where I can send this Old bottle of Scotch.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Semi-retired in Florida
    Posts
    483

    Default

    Hey, arizonaguide - - - - - your plans seem to have slipped from aerobatic afternoons to gliders. That true?

    While some glider models are indeed aerobatic, these powerless flying machines are still limited in what they can do. My advice: start the veggie diet, get your flight medical, and fly!

    Speak to an aerobatics instructor in your neck of the woods. You don't have to learn in a two-hole Pitts, just find someone who can teach in a Cessna 152 Aerobat (you might want to get Cessna's aerobatic book on that one), a 7KCAB Citabria (it will fly inverted), or a Decathlon. Remember that a 'chute is required for ALL acrobatic flight, and my recommendation is that you get your own!

    Four or five hours of aerobatic dual will leave you with a skill level you can't now imagine. You'll learn what both you and your airplane can do - - - - - and you'll enjoy the hell out of it!

    GO FOR IT !!!!!

  14. #14
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 1 View Post
    Hey, arizonaguide - - - - - your plans seem to have slipped from aerobatic afternoons to gliders. That true?

    While some glider models are indeed aerobatic, these powerless flying machines are still limited in what they can do. My advice: start the veggie diet, get your flight medical, and fly!
    LMAO!!!
    No it's still all about BOTH!! just getting out ASAP and doing some flying...but looking at that Tucson Club prices could be great way to get into the Glider thang...and if the've Aerobatic Sport Gliders all the better.
    Still a little tight on the $$$ right now. (economy REALLY sucks here now, and I'm tied to Engineering and Construction these days)

    Four or five hours of aerobatic dual will leave you with a skill level you can't now imagine. GO FOR IT !!!!!
    Yup, NO DOUBT! Thank you, Bro!!!

    I still remember what just the couple previous hours did for my flying and appreciation and "feel". (2hr SuperDecathalon, 1hr Great Lakes). My Dad even videoed it from the ground and we also got some Air-to-air pics of the Lakes. Loops, Rolls, Hammerheads, ground rush, etc! Great FUN!


    Also, the confidence level went WAY UP and I believe it allowed me to actually "think better" in any non-standard attitudes...since non-standard attitudes weren't foreign to me anymore.

    I personally think EVERYONE should have an hour of Aerobatics before they SOLO as student pilots...just for that reason! It helps minimize possible "panic" in non-standard attitudes.

    AND I'm still going to start back with several hours of Spin Training, and low speed/steep bank stalls.
    Gotta fill THAT hole, and really learn the "feel" of a "Moose Hunter Stall" as I hear it called.

  15. #15
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 1 View Post
    a 7KCAB Citabria (it will fly inverted), or a Decathlon.
    Yup! Citabria = airbatiC backwards. (god bless 'em!)

  16. #16
    New member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    2

    Default

    If your interested in gliders, you might prefer to learn at a commerical outfit instead of a club. Clubs are cheap and fun but intruction can be hit or miss. Look up az soaring, they're south of phx, it will cost more than a club, but you'll fly more, and have a dedicated instructor whos job it is to train pilots not a hobby. Places like this exist because of club students becoming fed up with lack of training at their club. Plus az soaring's owner/instructor is 2007/2008 national Glider aerobatics champion.

  17. #17
    Member arizonaguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Arizona/Alaska
    Posts
    1,523

    Default

    Thanks Ed, that may be a good place to check out also. Appreciate it. All ideas are welcome, because I'm in the unusual situation of not caring too much about certificate/license advancement...and just want to get up and fly a bit for fun.
    Sure the minimum (probably "private" license) certification...but then it'll be all about just fun add-ons like aerobatics, gliders, tailwheel, and such...to just become a better FLYER.
    So, any ideas on good instruction for FUN flying are worth looking into.

    So, sometimes being a poor broke aviator can have some advantages.
    I don't have to worry about chasing an advanced rating or maintaining my own airplane (as much as I wish I DID!).
    Just squirrel away a little $$$ strictly for FUN!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •