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Thread: Park Highway Closure?

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    Member akhounddog's Avatar
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    Default Park Highway Closure?

    Was curious if anyone had heard anything about a posssible closure of the parks highway streams for kings? Its not outside the realm of posibilities, and it was closed early last year. This closure would in turn have huge effects on the Deska and Little Su, which would more than likely be shut down also. I have seen no EO on fish and game. If I'm not mistaking they are already shutting down streams for 2010 in Kodiak.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    I'd expect at least willow to stay open due to the hatchery run there, they should really fin clip those fish though
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Didn't know willow had a hatchery run of fish. How does that work if there is no hatchery on the creek?

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default According to our local Bio

    Dave said it is looking alright but that is an educated guess. What actually shows up is another matter
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member northriver21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akdube View Post
    Didn't know willow had a hatchery run of fish. How does that work if there is no hatchery on the creek?
    Pump trucks.

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    I'd expect at least willow to stay open due to the hatchery run there, they should really fin clip those fish though
    Quote Originally Posted by akdube View Post
    Didn't know willow had a hatchery run of fish. How does that work if there is no hatchery on the creek?
    they have a better technique that doesn't call for handling every fish. its call otolith marking its a process I don't really understand but it has to do w/ raising the temperature of the water just a slight bit during a phase of gestation (again I have absolutely no idea wt frig I'm talking about) its a cheap way of leaving thermal marks on massive amounts of fish. A researcher or fish biologist can read the data on the fish, if you really want to learn more read this http://tagotoweb.adfg.state.ak.us/
    Yeah akdube its called remote release. they do all over the state form centralized hatcheries

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    they have a better technique that doesn't call for handling every fish. its call otolith marking its a process I don't really understand but it has to do w/ raising the temperature of the water just a slight bit during a phase of gestation (again I have absolutely no idea wt frig I'm talking about) its a cheap way of leaving thermal marks on massive amounts of fish.

    Yeah I know how odolith marking works, but can you have to kill the fish to tell which hatchery it came from, which is useless if say you want say an EO where you can keep hatchery fish but not wild fish. Or a regulation allowing you to keep 2 hatchery kings or something like that.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    Yeah I know how odolith marking works, but can you have to kill the fish to tell which hatchery it came from, which is useless if say you want say an EO where you can keep hatchery fish but not wild fish. Or a regulation allowing you to keep 2 hatchery kings or something like that.

    I hate to agree with the monkey, but thermal marking only helps after the fish are dead. A adipose clip lets you know right away if you are killing a hatchery or wild fish....

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    I hate to agree with the monkey, but thermal marking only helps after the fish are dead. A adipose clip lets you know right away if you are killing a hatchery or wild fish....
    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    Yeah I know how odolith marking works, but can you have to kill the fish to tell which hatchery it came from, which is useless if say you want say an EO where you can keep hatchery fish but not wild fish. Or a regulation allowing you to keep 2 hatchery kings or something like that.


    They don't mark the fish for the anglers benefit, its so the dept and the hatchery know the difference. I hate to break it to you guys but when you hook a king and fight it till you release it, it usually dies anyway. The otolith mark tells if the fish is hatchery stock but the scale sample gives in depth data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    They don't mark the fish for the anglers benefit, its so the dept and the hatchery know the difference. I hate to break it to you guys but when you hook a king and fight it till you release it, it usually dies anyway. The otolith mark tells if the fish is hatchery stock but the scale sample gives in depth data.
    I hate to break it too you but studies show the mortality rate is 7-10%, even less for big males, down around 2%, highest was small males that are bleeding (should be killed once bleeding anyways).

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    I hate to break it too you but studies show the mortality rate is 7-10%, even less for big males, down around 2%, highest was small males that are bleeding (should be killed once bleeding anyways).
    thanx for the facts yukon.
    thats not as bad as I would have thought. I should have included a disclaimer in my post stating that it was my opinion. Now I have the facts

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    Member ironartist's Avatar
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    Default little su

    You know where the slide hole is on the lower end of the little su? Have you seen the dead fish in the corner below it by the eagles nest. Those guys hook and mortally kill gobs of fish there every season. Gee I wonder if thats why the nest is in the tree overlooking that section of river. If those guys sneaking eggs would stop maybe a few more fish would get up the river to spawn
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    mortality of C&R may be just 7-10% but of the other 90% a lot never make it to spawning gravels, especially on a long, typically low flow stream such as the little su.

    With the intensity of fishing pressure the little su now recieves we should be advocating for longer closures during king season if we want to preserve the resource. I also think that a few 3-day closures to motor-boats would be a helpful tool to allow more spawners to make it through. (at least a closure upstream from burma) Just imagine if you could float the little su in a canoe during king season without having the fear of being swamped around every bend.

    Any support out there from other anglers?

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    I would love that. It would be a nice float without such waves. It would hard to get passed I belive.

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    A couple things: the hatchery supplement to Willow Creek comes from an egg take from the weir on Deception Creek (which flows into Willow). The forecast for this year, based on the number of 4 year fish through the Deshka weir last year, is for an above average return. Since the forecast is good, there isn't enough justification to implement pre-season restrictions or closures up the Parks, and the weekend only switch by regulation in mid season is there to allow sufficient escapement. I'm sure the Dept will be keeping a very close eye on them, however, and be ready to restrict at the drop of a hat.

    That said, we also may see a restriction to no bait on the Deshka to start the season. As happened last year, local biologists did not fully trust the forecast, and chose to manage the Deshka proactively instead of reactively. Come to find out, they were right, and credited their early season actions for helping achieve the return they did.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Willow/Deception has long been the broodstock source for a majority of the kings stocked in South Central out of the Ft. Rich hatchery.

    I just got a pretty good idea for a masters thesis, involving deception creek hatchery fish. Hmmmmm
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    I think I'm gonna have to get on the advisory board for the mat-su. I don't care for all the guide motivated rules, like for instance the little su should be open all night, not just the hours that clients like to fish. I also agree w/ andweav, we should have no motor days

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    There are several reason that the Litle Su is closed at night but what it really comes down to is that there are not enough kings to keep the fishery open 24/7. It is closed for everyone as it should be during the 11 pm - 6am timeframe.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    I think I'm gonna have to get on the advisory board for the mat-su. I don't care for all the guide motivated rules, like for instance the little su should be open all night, not just the hours that clients like to fish. I also agree w/ andweav, we should have no motor days
    If I remember correctly this regulation has nothing to do with guides. It was put into place to reduce the king harvest and help enforcement of the fishery.

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    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceblue View Post
    There are several reason that the Litle Su is closed at night but what it really comes down to is that there are not enough kings to keep the fishery open 24/7. It is closed for everyone as it should be during the 11 pm - 6am timeframe.
    Closing a river at night in a state where there are slope and shift workers is wrong. Forcing people to fish during certain hours may help enforcement, but people that are going to break the law don't care what time of day it is. Ship Creek "used" to be a great summer resource for late night fishing.

    I do not like regulation that prevents people from utilizing a resource. I do believe that it would be realistic to limit powered boats above the boat launch a couple days a week.

    Mike

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