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Thread: Justice Prevails

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Default Justice Prevails

    Alaska as whole wins a tremendous victory! Thank you to the BOF for doing the right thing for the resource and the economy of this state!

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    Like, what did they do to what and whom?

    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    What they did was beat back a monster called subsistence. It didn't kill the monster but it did subdue it for the moment. All I hope is that w/ the health care debate raging, that the feds didn't notice.

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    What is wrong with the people of Alaska getting frist dibbs on salmon to feed their families?? I wish the Govt. was as concerned about business and putting back to work as much as some people in AK are with com fish. Just my .02. I know many people who have invested hundreds or thousands of dollars in their business and it seems the Govt. is doing every thing in their power to put them out of business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    What is wrong with the people of Alaska getting frist dibbs on salmon to feed their families?? I wish the Govt. was as concerned about business and putting back to work as much as some people in AK are with com fish. Just my .02. I know many people who have invested hundreds or thousands of dollars in their business and it seems the Govt. is doing every thing in their power to put them out of business.
    well then it only makes sense to keep the 2nd leading industry in business , and number one employer. you're talkin but sayin 2 different things

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    On the Kenai Peninsula a and Cook Inlet i wonder what brings in more dollars and employs more people. Com fish or sport fishing, Both res and nonres combined. it would be interesting to know.

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    Default KGCPR, those numbers are out

    Comfishers bring in yearly 18 million per season, for UCI salmon. Sportfishers bring in @ over 600 million, outsiders and residents. But ask fish and Game to compare apples to apples and they say you are comparing apples to oranges. I'm not an economist but I can safely say a 20 percent +or- is close. So compare 18 million to over 600 million. Come to your own conclusions but I have come to mine. This numbers are from Fish and Game, not mine. Now some will say I am slanting the facts, I will say I am only repeating the facts as I understand them. Got better facts people? Give it to me!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    So you are saying that sportfish brings in 600 million and com fish 18 million? So com fish gets 60% of the fish for 18 million and sportfish gets 40% for 600 million?? I am not sure what percent of the fish comfish gets but i just guessed. Anyone have a real number there?

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    We've hashed this one over a million times. Whop understands he's comparing apples to oranges he just doesn't seem to care.

    If you want to claim the entire 600 million and not just fees (600 includes eating, buying gas, rods, lures etc) then you can not stop at the 18 million paid for round wt fish. What about comfish's gas? What about the gas of the person who drives to the store to buy a comfish fillet? What about the money made on the comfish all they way down the line to the supermarket?

    The entire idea of comparing them in economic terms is off anyway as it is clearly spelled out that you can not use economics (and only economics) as a allocation tool. I know Whop knows all this, and wonder why he won't say it.

    We have more salmon in general than you can shake a stick at. This can be attributed to the Fish Bios using the tools in their toolbox and comfish is one very big tool in that toolbox.

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    Clarify...............I THINK theWhop2000 knows all that, and would be very surprised if he didn't.

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    Question Sports Fish Economics Survey

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/statewide/economics/ : Here is the webb site for a survey completed by ADFG Spors Fish Division. It was competed in 2007 It show that sportsfishing bring in , in excess of $700 million dollars, of which the Mat-Su Borough share is $115 million. Most reports show the com fish may bring in $ 35-$40 million yearly. If Alaskan had 30-40% of the annual return what could we do with that.


    Big Fisherman

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    Default I erred on the side of caution

    Nothing here says I did not figure that Comfishers are another tool in the toolbox. But so are sport and dippers. That said, I was not getting into all the facts when they have been hashed a thousand times before. Gave a simple answer to a not so simple question. Crucify me if you want but I used numbers UNDER the Stats, not over them. Didn't want to be accused of over inflating numbers but it looks like AkBrownfan has called me into question anyway. Can't win for losing around this forum
    I know a lot of things but don't include it in all my posts so Cut a brother some F'en flack. I will say no more, tootles
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Default another interesting fact

    Comfishers get @ 80 to 85 percent of the catch in UCI. Sport and PU users get 15 to twenty percent, depending on the take, year to year, it will vary but not by much.
    Other numbers to consider are how many sportfish licenses are sold yearly and how many UCI Comfish permits are there? There are about 1500 drift permits issued in UCI each year, or re-upped cause they have to be renewed but only 1200 are fished year to year. All depends on run strengths and overhead projected. Gas prices and fish prices.
    That said, you need a lot more info on who spreads the most cash and leads to the best economic return. Some will argue that Commercial fishing is the backbone of Alaska and we need to keep that sacred cow going and some will argue that times and economics change and communities should change with the times. I'm not sure which is right. I'm just saying there is a lot more in play than just numbers. Look at the commercial fish politics and the blowback from sport fish politics. Time will tell who is eventually right, me thinks!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    quibble all you want. All I know is the current system works fine for everybody.
    Sportys get theirs, dippers get theirs, and gillnetters get theirs (not as much as they should tho) but the most important thing is the escapement numbers and health of the spawning habitat. The way I see it as long as we can keep you guys from stomping the spawning beds to smithereens, we all have a good future. In other words if it aint broke what is there to fix? If you really want to make a difference run for the school board or something, seriously

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    Default Economic backbone?

    Oil is clearly and unquestionably the economic backbone of Alaska! Last figures I saw showed that oil contributed around 85% of the cash the state governement runs on and redistributes throughout the state.

    Mining, tourism, and comm fishing together only contribute around 15% or so. A bunch of those guys that live in state depend on the permanent fund and/or money from oil salaries to stay afloat.

    We all need to start pressing the govt. to open up ANWR and NPR if we want to stay afloat. Build the gas pipeline to the Anchorage area and use the gas for making plastics, fertilizer, refining oil etc. instead of exporting the jobs along with the gas.

    Tourism, comm fishing, and mining are important to those who depend on them for a living. But in the big picture they really aren't that important to the state's income.


    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    .....
    That said, you need a lot more info on who spreads the most cash and leads to the best economic return. Some will argue that Commercial fishing is the backbone of Alaska and we need to keep that sacred cow going and some will argue that times and economics change and communities should change with the times. I'm not sure which is right. I'm just saying there is a lot more in play than just numbers. Look at the commercial fish politics and the blowback from sport fish politics. Time will tell who is eventually right, me thinks!!!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    The BOF did a great job in using the 8 criterion to decide a negative finding of the C & T for the Chitina Subdistrict. Delo nailed it on the head with his personal memory: "While I was participating in the dip net fishery in Chitina, I never thought I was subsistence fishing". Need I say more!

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    tvinalaska says---"Mining, tourism, and comm fishing together only contribute around 15% or so. A bunch of those guys that live in state depend on the permanent fund and/or money from oil salaries to stay afloat."
    tvfinak I would just soon see the state keep the dividend, I don't need it. All the oil industry did for the Alaska I know is 2 things---1.Spilled 11.5 million gallons of crude right smack dab where me and my family lives and makes a living for 3 generation. 2. Loaded my state w/ Texans, okies, and louisiana folks. Then because of them we got the tree huggers from Maine and Vermont. W/ all that we got all kinds of federal agencies, so yeah oil did change things here ...Don't blow smoke about the oil industry unless you knew Alaska before the pipeline or cook inlet. Maybe oil built Alaska the way we know it now, but you can rest assured it had nothing to do w/ the Alaskan spirit or anything else positive....maybe a bike trail or two who cares.
    The military has probably been biggest factor that has forged this state.....They're the ones that should get a dividend from the oil. Thankyou Vets!!

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    Fullbush that was a mouthful does the healthcare bill get any hair between your teeth? Thankyou Vets for all your hard work.

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    Default Comm fishing etc.

    Eliminating the permanent fund sounds great to me also bit I'm sure there are a lot of folks that depend on it. But a bigger portion of the oil money goes to fund your schools, highways, airports, health care, comunications like telephone and internet, law enforcement, fishing substidizes etc. etc. Do you want to pay a LOT more taxes on your catch to pay for all of these services?

    I'm not sure how your family got to Alaska orginally or what they ran their fishing boats on but it was most likely OIL. Odds are you are still using OIL today in your boats and complaining about the high costs. Wanta guess what your fuel and utility costs would be without AK oil? You probably couldn't even afford to fish!

    Whether it comes from Alaska or OK or LA or CA we run our lives run on oil. You worse tree huggers that you complain about are the Not In My Backyard types. I'm sure you won't want to be one of those folks so enjoy your inexpensive oil and learn to see the positives as well as the negatives.

    The military has indeed contributed a lot to this state. the costs were paid for by urban taxpayers in the lower 48 - certainly not by the rural folks in Ak. And - by the way - the military is totally dependent on OIL.

    It is great that the state recognizes that those who live in the cities and contribute so very much to the state deserve the fish to fed their families just as much as those who live in rural areas. Many cheers for killing the socialist subsistance monster!


    Quote Originally Posted by fullbush View Post
    tvinalaska says---"Mining, tourism, and comm fishing together only contribute around 15% or so. A bunch of those guys that live in state depend on the permanent fund and/or money from oil salaries to stay afloat."
    tvfinak I would just soon see the state keep the dividend, I don't need it. All the oil industry did for the Alaska I know is 2 things---1.Spilled 11.5 million gallons of crude right smack dab where me and my family lives and makes a living for 3 generation. 2. Loaded my state w/ Texans, okies, and louisiana folks. Then because of them we got the tree huggers from Maine and Vermont. W/ all that we got all kinds of federal agencies, so yeah oil did change things here ...Don't blow smoke about the oil industry unless you knew Alaska before the pipeline or cook inlet. Maybe oil built Alaska the way we know it now, but you can rest assured it had nothing to do w/ the Alaskan spirit or anything else positive....maybe a bike trail or two who cares.
    The military has probably been biggest factor that has forged this state.....They're the ones that should get a dividend from the oil. Thankyou Vets!!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  20. #20
    Member fullbush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Oil is clearly and unquestionably the economic backbone of Alaska! Last figures I saw showed that oil contributed around 85% of the cash the state governement runs on and redistributes throughout the state.

    Mining, tourism, and comm fishing together only contribute around 15% or so. A bunch of those guys that live in state depend on the permanent fund and/or money from oil salaries to stay afloat.

    We all need to start pressing the govt. to open up ANWR and NPR if we want to stay afloat. Build the gas pipeline to the Anchorage area and use the gas for making plastics, fertilizer, refining oil etc. instead of exporting the jobs along with the gas.

    Tourism, comm fishing, and mining are important to those who depend on them for a living. But in the big picture they really aren't that important to the state's income.
    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Eliminating the permanent fund sounds great to me also bit I'm sure there are a lot of folks that depend on it. But a bigger portion of the oil money goes to fund your schools, highways, airports, health care, comunications like telephone and internet, law enforcement, fishing substidizes etc. etc. Do you want to pay a LOT more taxes on your catch to pay for all of these services?

    I'm not sure how your family got to Alaska orginally or what they ran their fishing boats on but it was most likely OIL. Odds are you are still using OIL today in your boats and complaining about the high costs. Wanta guess what your fuel and utility costs would be without AK oil? You probably couldn't even afford to fish!

    Whether it comes from Alaska or OK or LA or CA we run our lives run on oil. You worse tree huggers that you complain about are the Not In My Backyard types. I'm sure you won't want to be one of those folks so enjoy your inexpensive oil and learn to see the positives as well as the negatives.

    The military has indeed contributed a lot to this state. the costs were paid for by urban taxpayers in the lower 48 - certainly not by the rural folks in Ak. And - by the way - the military is totally dependent on OIL.

    It is great that the state recognizes that those who live in the cities and contribute so very much to the state deserve the fish to fed their families just as much as those who live in rural areas. Many cheers for killing the socialist subsistance monster!
    Look pal, if you want to argue w/ me you better strap on your cast iron boxers cause your blither struck a nerve w/ me. where in my post does it say I'm against oil? Of course my family runs their boats on oil. Did I say "not in my backyard?" What I said they SPILLED IN MY BACKYARD! READ MY POST! I SAID I DO NOT DEPEND ON THE DIVIDEND!! MY GOD! You act like I'm a green peace guy. I was here prior to oil in Alaska I know the drill. I saw 1st hand the loud mouths infiltrating here, you couldn't even squeak down the halls of my school there were so many kids. (I graduated from Service). WAIT! i'm not explaining another thing to you, read my previous post. I was just responding to your lame post saying fishing, mining and tourism employees depend on the dividend to stay afloat, thats laughable you arrogant clock puncher. The military could give a rats behind if theres a pipeline here or not. All the military installations were here long before there was a prudhoe bay. Don't speak for me either, I DO NOT ENJOY INEXPENSIVE OIL!!!!! Its priced out of this world! Your heros in the oil industry seem to think its acceptable to charge Alaskans and average of 33 cents a gallon more than the average gas price down south, and thats in Anchorage, its dollars more in the bush. I worked on the slope I know how lazy peeps are. I saw 1st hand. We sat there wondering what to put on our time sheets because we did nothing in a 12 hour day NOTHING! Finally I couldn't take it and got into drilling. I personally drilled in ANWR over in Camden Bay by Kaktovik w/ the warthog rig, I drilled the 1st hole in Alpine CD-1, AND I drilled in the NPR-A for BP. Working up there taught me the true meaning of worthless. I had to get back to fishing where at least I feed people and do some good, not be an over weight pile of Nomex waiting for my 2 weeks to go by. Heck Hugo Chavez has a bigger heart than your heros, at least he got fuel to the villages, while your fat cat bosses patted each other on the backs at the Oil Barrons Club w/ their girl friends, laughing how they bought our politicians, meanwhile there wives sat home recovering from botox treatments. Face it tvinak, we're coming on the twilight of oil flow here, you need to figure out what you're going to do w/ yourself for a living, sounds like you're in panic mode, PM me maybe I'll talk to my cannery about creating a position for you, but remember in that industry, you work or they'll replace you.
    None of this has a thing to do w/ the BOF decision so I'm done bantering about the oil industry

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