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Thread: Glock 20 owners, I need 20 seconds of your time..

  1. #1
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Default Glock 20 owners, I need 20 seconds of your time..

    Just bought a G20, 4 boxes of 200 grain Doubletap wide flat hardcast, and a Desanti shoulder rig. I am reading (too much perhaps) online. Various gun experts (self proclaimed) and Glocktalk and this and that. What I am reading is you shouldn't shoot lead bullets in Glocks. More specifically, read that the hardcast 200 grain Doubletaps jam easily in the stock G20. Folks are talking about upgrading magazine springs to Wolf +10, upgrading recoil springs to 20-22, some folks are upgrading barrels. Then I read on the next forum post, some folks suggest the stock barrel is more reliable with hardcast ammo than the tight spec aftermarket barrels and if you have a gun for protection, use the stock barrel. I am at my wits end trying to make sense of it. I don't know of anyone to ask that doesn't make a living selling these barrels or the ammo itself. Seems like a good time to lean on my cyber friends here a bit. I promise not to start/reply/think about another 10mm thread for a long time. Ha ha ha... The long and short of it, I work out of state, gun will be waiting on me April 29th when I get home, I fly to SE Alaska for a remote trip with the wife 5 days later. If I "need" an aftermarket barrel and/or springs, I need to order it and have it at home waiting on me at that time. Otherwise, the entire rationale in buying this gun is out the window. While it wouldn't be the biggest mistake I have made, it would be a quite costly one. So what say you? Stock G20 good to go with Doubletap 200 gr hardcast? Or is me dum as reading on da Glock forems make me fill like?


    This is the thread that got me wondering...

    http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/show....php?t=1160360



    -Dan
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Member Matt M's Avatar
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    I have shot plenty of cor bon loads through mine and just about everything else. Glock says you should not shoot lead cast bullets because of the polygonal rifling. Okay, that just refers to lead build up. It will all depend on the bullet profile. You say you will have 5 days before you go on a hunt...you better try it. I would NOT buy another barrel...buy 2 or 3 types of different ammo.

    Matt

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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Thanks Matt.


    Quote Originally Posted by danattherock View Post
    I don't know of anyone to ask that doesn't make a living selling these barrels or the ammo itself.
    Just read this and it rolls off the tongue funny. To be clear, I am not talking about our fellow forum member that sells this ammo and Lone Wolf barrels. He has been quite helpful and I appreciate his input. I was talking about other resources I have contacted today.
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Member byrd_hntr's Avatar
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    Default 10mm world

    As I understand it, and believe me I understand very little. The whole issue is lead buildup from shooting soft bullets and then switching to harder bullets. This increases the pressure to unsafe levels. So if you stick to hardcast or jacketed you will be fine. If you do shoots soft lead make sure you clean the barrel well before switching back to hard or jacketed. It might be worth asking Murphy or Tim Sundles. BB now makes hot loads in 10MM and I am sure Tim has put a few down the tube of a Glock 20.
    I'm going to ctrl-alt-delete you so hard your mama's computer is going to reboot.

  5. #5

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    The problem from Glocks and lead bullets came about was some of the people where not cleaning there pistol aftr shooting them and the lead shaveing where getting into the groves of the rifleing and causeing extra pressure of the round passage through the barrel and that where the problem started about when you heard about Glock pistol going kaboom on people back in the 80s and 90s time frame on the problem has beening them shooting lead reloads in the pistol ..

    So Glock lawyer got togerther and came up the little Qoute in the handbook about the lead bullets ..

    You have to remember at the time the most common law enforcement pratice round was a lead based bullet for pratice round to save the dept money ..that where people got the idea about the Glock pistol at the time..

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    Just my .02 as I own and shoot several G20's. I'm using the same rounds, but I switched out barrels to a Lone Wolff and I also have a Jarvis. The reason I do it is the higher pressure rounds from Double Tap will be in a fully supported barrel vs. a non fully suported one that comes stock with your gun. I've had some case ruptures with a G-17 and Speer Lawman ammo before and the case blew out at the non supported crescent area. I didn't want a repeat with a much larger more powerful round.
    I also found the aftermarket barrels were a bit more accurate as well. I also upgraded the recoil rod to stainless and dropped a 24lb wolff spring in there and it really does take the snap out of it.
    Much more controllable and easier on the pistol shooting those thumpers.
    Just my thoughts

    Mountaintrekker

  7. #7
    RMK
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    Default Glocks

    I don't own a 20, but I do own a 21, a 30, and a 36.

    I wouldn't mess around changing barrels and springs. Sounds like a waste of money. Just buy decent ammo, and clean the gun after shooting.

    I can't count the thousands of rounds I've put through my "21" with maybe a couple malfunctions. (both probably caused by limp wristing the gun)

    It would seem strange that a 10mm would be so much different than a .45.

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    Member AKMarmot's Avatar
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    Default g29

    I have a 29, smaller version of the 20. I Shoot DT 230, & 200 hardcasts & well as 200 controlled expansion & HSM 180 FMJ's all with no issues. Using stock barrel & guide rod spring. The glock rep at the annual Sportsmans show says there is no issue with them & stock barrels as well, so I guess its which expert you want to believe. I'd say your good to go, & unless you really shoot it a lot I wouldn't change anything.
    Then again if you don't shoot it & want to part with it after your fall trip you could always make me a smoking deal.
    Last edited by AKMarmot; 03-19-2010 at 15:59. Reason: can't spell

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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    I think that... times up!
    ><((((>.`..`.. ><((((>`..`.><((((>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

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    I was curious so I wrote Double tap a few months ago. I was considering buying a G20 at that time. They responded by saying the ammo was tested and developed with that gun in mind.

    They also said there is no issue with shooting their 200gr-230gr hard cast ammo in the stock G20. Drop them a line and save the response for your file.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Hard cast isn't a problem.

    Jacketed isn't a problem.

    There are no "grooves" in Glock rifling.

    Don't worry about any of the Glock springs, it comes out of the box ready to use. It's just those 1911 guys who claim you have to change springs and parts because they are so used to having to do that to make a brand new 1911 work. Glocks just work and they keep on working forever with no user input aside from a cleaning brush, 5 drops of oil, and a trigger finger.

    If you will shoot a lot of cast lead, get an aftermarket barrel, but only use it for high-volume practice. The stock barrel is the one that should be carried. Think about it... you'll be having a bad day if you have to shoot it in the field. The leading problems develop over hundreds of rounds fired with poor maintenance, not by shooting a few rounds in self-defense.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  12. #12

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    I have a G29 with some mods and have found the stock barrel will run anything I put in it. I use several different loads from DT and all are consistent. I clean the barrel after firing 25-30 hardcast...doesn`t necessarily need it but I do it anyway. I only intend to use a few cast at a time. Mods that work for accuracy`s sake are the trigger spring and 3.5# connector. With the trigger mods the smooth/light trigger pull helps me shoot tighter groups. I have a 23# spring on the way to relieve some snap from the hotter rounds but it is not needed. Some of my mags have performance springs and some don`t...they all work. I consider aftermarket barrels target/range barrels...had a case-rupture failure with mine...too tight/too short chamber.

    Great pistols and have tons of penetration and capacity...enjoy the warm and fuzzy feeling it gives you when you carry.

    Alot of good advice given...keep the barrel clean, few drops of oil and you are ready to rock.

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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input fellas. I do appreciate your time and thoughts on the subject. After reading here and elsewhere, talking with Chris, emails from KKM, Wolff Springs, Mike at Doubletap, etc... it is clear that there are some real knuckleheads on the Glock Talk forums. Ha ha.. I will pick up a stainless guide rod and a 20# recoil spring, clean the gun every 100 rounds, and call it a day. Thanks for the contributions here and the PM's as well.


    -Dan
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    In reference to the trigger springs & connectors... if this is a self-defense gun, then don't be lightening the trigger at all. Light triggers are for paper bullseye targets. You want a consistent moderate to heavy pull in a defense gun. One of the best combos for this application is to replace the stock trigger spring with the olive NY1 8# spring and replace the stock connector with the 3.5#. Do a full trigger bar polish job in the process. You'll end up with a very nice ~5# pull with a consistent break that feels much better than the stock spring/connector combo.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
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    Aside from whether changing out the guide rod and spring is warranted, I likely am going to get a set, and would like to know which ones are recommended? Where do you get them? Google is not leading me to any clear answers.

    I know I didn't "need" it, but I put a tungsten rod and 20lb spring in my Springfield Armory XD40 Tactical, and like the way it shoots like that.

  16. #16

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    One more.....I've shot DT 200 and 230 through my 100% stock G20SF with no issues.

  17. #17
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Try topglock.com they have everything Glock and their service is top notch.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    In reference to the trigger springs & connectors... if this is a self-defense gun, then don't be lightening the trigger at all. Light triggers are for paper bullseye targets. You want a consistent moderate to heavy pull in a defense gun. One of the best combos for this application is to replace the stock trigger spring with the olive NY1 8# spring and replace the stock connector with the 3.5#. Do a full trigger bar polish job in the process. You'll end up with a very nice ~5# pull with a consistent break that feels much better than the stock spring/connector combo.

    The stock trigger spring is 5#, I think the connector rod might also be 5#. I personally did the 6# and 3.5# connector rod and it made a very nice trigger pull.

    Your paragraph doesn't make sense, care to elaborate more on that NY1 spring? A 6# spring made a huge difference, couldn't imagine go up to a 8#, would be way mushy it seems. Unless they rate their springs different? Just curious. A trigger spring in the glocks, pull, the trigger so the heavier the spring the lighter the pull.

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    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarineHawk View Post
    Aside from whether changing out the guide rod and spring is warranted, I likely am going to get a set, and would like to know which ones are recommended? Where do you get them? Google is not leading me to any clear answers.

    I know I didn't "need" it, but I put a tungsten rod and 20lb spring in my Springfield Armory XD40 Tactical, and like the way it shoots like that.
    I would suggest Lone Wolf. You can order online from there like any of the other places. LW is cheaper than Glockmeister. I have only bought one item from Topglock, it is back ordered, but they seem good=weekly updates. Prices seem good on most items.

    I would recommend the captured stainless rod, or tungsten if you prefer like you stated, then get a 20# spring. If shooting hardcast like Double Tap, get a 22#. $38 plus shipping if you order a stainless rod and a 20 and 22# spring. I personally shoot the 22# on a stainless capt. rod from LW. Functions flawlessly with the Double Tap.

  20. #20
    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Default The springs of New York

    Sure...

    The stock trigger spring is a 5.5# coil extension spring with a hook at each end. It connects to the frame at the rear and the trigger bar at the front. It is under tension when the gun is cocked and it's job is to pull the rear of the trigger bar upward against the connector. When you pull the trigger, you are actually releasing tension on this spring, not increasing it. The increasing resistance you feel is the spring pressure on the firing pin as you compress that spring and pull the firing pin (striker) toward the rear.

    The NY trigger springs function in a completely different fashion. They are coiled compression springs mounted in a plastic "V" shaped gizmo. You remove the stock spring and place this doohicky in the space under the trigger bar cruciform where the original spring used to be. Only now you have constant upward pressure on the trigger bar cruciform and as you pull the trigger, you are increasing the compression on that coil spring, especially during the final bit of movement where the trigger bar drops.

    You can view the NY trigger spring here. http://www.topglock.com/item/41370_G...G_NY_1_OL.aspx (note that they sell the NY1 & the 3.5 connector as a set for $18.90 as this is a very popular trigger job combination).

    Note that there is the olive NY1 that gives an 8# trigger pull with the stock 5# connector and then there is the orange NY2 spring that gives a 12# pull with the 5# connector. Avoid the orange NY2 like the plague!

    Now you have the connectors to deal with and they have more influence on trigger pull than the trigger spring. The stock connector is called 5# as that is the felt trigger pull. The popular 3.5# connector has a shallower angle to the part that the trigger bar rides against. The shallow angle provides less resistance and therefore a lighter pull. They also make an 8# connector, but it is way too steep of an angle to give a consistent pull. Don't bother with it. And never try to use any NY spring with the 8# connector. You won't be able to pull the trigger at all and risk breaking the gun or at least bending the trigger bar.

    The combination of the light 3.5# connector (which reduces friction on the pull) with the heavier pull NY1 spring results in a roughly 5# trigger pull. The take up of the trigger is very smooth and easy. The NY spring increases resistance as you near the breaking of the shot. It feels more like shooting a revolver and gives the best consistency of all connector/spring combinations.

    In all cases, a full trigger bar polish will do wonders for what you feel at the trigger.

    Clear as mud?
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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