Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 27

Thread: over pressure with factory ammo

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    481

    Default over pressure with factory ammo

    I bought a new rifle last weekend and went out and shot and noticed that I was getting some over pressure signs with it. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this before. I tried to call federal, but no one ever answers the phone ever. Does Federal run softer brass? Or dO i need to send the rifle into the factory. here is a picture of one of the brass.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails over pressure.jpg  

  2. #2
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Yup, thatís brass flow. I think I remember Tim Sundles saying something about Federal having a pressure problem but I don't think it was in 300WM.

    Do you have a good clean bore, no copper buildup or anything?
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Yup, thatís brass flow. I think I remember Tim Sundles saying something about Federal having a pressure problem but I don't think it was in 300WM.

    Do you have a good clean bore, no copper buildup or anything?
    It was in a 300 WSM. It does have a good clean bore. The rifle is brand new. I shot three shots, cleaned the rifle. Shot three more shots, had one stiff opening bolt with a mark. That was with cheap federal fusion ammo to get it zeroed. Clean the rifle, shot three more shots with federal permium 165 barnes TSX and all three had ths marks on them. The grouping with the load was great .481 at a 100 yards. I just have never really seen any factory loading with pressure signs. Like I said I tried to call federal, with no luck.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    In an easy chair in Cyberspace
    Posts
    2,316

    Default

    What make/model of rifle?

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    481

    Default

    The rifle is a kimber 8400 montana.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    3,048

    Default

    You can try some other brand ammo, reload and control pressure with your reloads or send the rifle back. The short mags are pretty high pressure to start with and combine that with a rifle that runs high pressures because of manufacturing tolerances and occasionally you get one that is a litle overboard with factory ammo. I have a 270Win that runs high pressure sooner than it really should but I load it a little lighter and it's fine. I have found empties that I believe to be once fired that show brass flow and or flat primers. What you have is a little unusual but not unheard of. I think a lot of people buy a gun and some ammo and go shoot it without ever looking for pressure signs not even knowing they have one running on the edge. Most people don't shoot their guns enough for this to destroy them as there is a fair amount of safety margin built in. There are many people that only use their guns for hunting and only fire three or four rounds a year and will get away with this for the rest of there life. But if it were mine I would sure do something to get the pressure down.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    301

    Default

    I once found about 5 cases at the range from 300 WSM Federal brand all looked exactly like yours. I have heard that at least some Federal brass is softer at the base then other makes. These WSM and RSUM's both run at higher then normal pressures.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,815

    Default

    Reports of pressure signs with Factory Loads, in the WSMs are COMMON.

    The MAP (Maximum Average Pressure) for the WSMs is HIGHER than for most other cartridges.

    Apparently, it's too high for some rifles.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  9. #9
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Yup, that’s brass flow. I think I remember Tim Sundles saying something about Federal having a pressure problem but I don't think it was in 300WM.

    Do you have a good clean bore, no copper buildup or anything?
    Brass flow? Looks like a sealed primer to me.

    It also looks as if the primer is normal. There is no cratering around the strike and the primer is not flattened out to the edge of the pocket. It still appears that there is a smooth radius around the edge of the cup.

    There is extractor marking on the head from the bolt face but not excessive.

    What am I missing here?

  10. #10
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Brass flow? Looks like a sealed primer to me.

    It also looks as if the primer is normal. There is no cratering around the strike and the primer is not flattened out to the edge of the pocket. It still appears that there is a smooth radius around the edge of the cup.

    There is extractor marking on the head from the bolt face but not excessive.

    What am I missing here?
    Tool mark transfer from the bolt face and marital moveing into the extractor void, not just an extractor mark. At first I thought I was seeing a thumb print near the “M” but then saw the tool marks extend into the primer pocket near the “C” so it’s transfer. At least that’s what I see, brass just starting to flow under heat and pressure. The primer is not looking bad at all to me other than what may be some gas escaping past it near the extractor.
    Andy
    On the web= C-lazy-F.co
    Email= Andy@C-lazy-F.co
    Call/Text 602-315-2406
    Phoenix Arizona

  11. #11
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Tool mark transfer from the bolt face and marital moveing into the extractor void, not just an extractor mark. At first I thought I was seeing a thumb print near the ďMĒ but then saw the tool marks extend into the primer pocket near the ďCĒ so itís transfer. At least thatís what I see, brass just starting to flow under heat and pressure. The primer is not looking bad at all to me other than what may be some gas escaping past it near the extractor.
    Andy, I guess I just don't have good enough resolution on my screen to see what you're talking about. The blue color is factory sealer, gas escaping would be black. The primer looks fine on my screen and I don't see any displaced material. It would be nice to see a better more focussed picture from the OP.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    welfare state of Alaska
    Posts
    5,153

    Default Agree

    I don't see any issue either. The primers is the weakest point and it looks perfectly normal - no flattening or cratering or tool marks on it that I can see. I've certainly seen a lot hotter loads!

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    Andy, I guess I just don't have good enough resolution on my screen to see what you're talking about. The blue color is factory sealer, gas escaping would be black. The primer looks fine on my screen and I don't see any displaced material. It would be nice to see a better more focussed picture from the OP.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  13. #13
    Member Diesel Nut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Wasilla, AK
    Posts
    354

    Default

    Swap,

    See if your camera has a Micro-focus range. It'll probably look like a representation of a flower if you have a multi-turn dial. If you take a picture in this mode, you'll be able to get a lot closer and still take a crisp, clear picture that will help us evaluate what's going on.

    From what I can see in the pic, there's nothing to worry about. The primer is a lot thinner than the brass, and there's no marks on it that cause any worry. I think you're fine, but a closer, clearer picture would help determine for sure

  14. #14

    Default factory ammo

    I have more pronounced pressure signs in the factory 325 ammo in my Montana. All primers are FLAT. Yours has fine looking edges. I wish mine were nice.
    I reload so I can load them a little light. Don't really bother me much. Love the cartridge for general purpose Alaska hunting.
    I have wondered if this has anything to do with the professed 'match' barrel they use. Still don't have a clear definition on what exactly that means. I thought they cut the chamber a little tight so would have to watch seating depth and such. At least that is what I thought.

    I will try to find some fired factory brass and take picture.

  15. #15
    Member marshall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Near Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by green sourdough View Post
    Still don't have a clear definition on what exactly that means. I thought they cut the chamber a little tight so would have to watch seating depth and such. At least that is what I thought.
    I'm currently have a rifle built with a so called match grade barrel. It's my understanding the barrel is held to a very tight uniformity of .0002 from chamber to muzzle and hand lapped to smooth and polish the bore.

    The rifling is also cut with more precession to insure it's uniformity. More care is taken in the throat area to properly taper into the lands and lap the transition.

    Basically more attention to detail and hand finished rather than production stuff fitting in between allowable specs.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    I bought a new rifle last weekend and went out and shot and noticed that I was getting some over pressure signs with it. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this before. I tried to call federal, but no one ever answers the phone ever. Does Federal run softer brass? Or dO i need to send the rifle into the factory. here is a picture of one of the brass.
    Federal makes good ammo, and brass, as far as I know. But the WSM stuff is loaded hot, and there is bound to be some variance.

    I hafta agree with AD, but it's hard to tell from a picture. Nonetheless, it doesn't look normal to me, and apparently, you see it as a pressure sign.

    I guess, you should contact both Federal, AND the rifle-maker. Offer to send them a fired case.

    And, maybe, try some OTHER brands of ammo, too. It's cheap ya know.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  17. #17

    Default

    If you show that brass to federal, or the rifle maker, they will both tell you the same thing = there is no problem, not over pressure. As was previously stated, the primer is going to show over pressure signs far before the brass "flows".

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barkbuster20 View Post
    If you show that brass to federal, or the rifle maker, they will both tell you the same thing = there is no problem, not over pressure. As was previously stated, the primer is going to show over pressure signs far before the brass "flows".
    I think the handloading manuals will tell you that you can have high pressure without a primer indication.

    Primers, can tell you, there is high pressure, and usually do, but they won't always tell you there isn't.

    For example, in a rifle like the Remington 700 that has a plunger ejector, you can see a mark on the case head from the ejector hole in the bolt, and a scratch or rub, from when you open the bolt. That sign will show before, or along with, a flattened primer.

    Again, I can't tell much from a picture, and maybe I wouldn't know much more if I saw it for real. ??? I can only speculate, and give an opinion.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    481

    Default

    There is a square mark right on the 3 in the 300. that is what i was talking about.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by swapdonkey View Post
    I bought a new rifle last weekend and went out and shot and noticed that I was getting some over pressure signs with it. I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this before. I tried to call federal, but no one ever answers the phone ever. Does Federal run softer brass? Or dO i need to send the rifle into the factory. here is a picture of one of the brass.
    I had similar problems with a kimber montana 270 wsm with several types of factory ammo. I think your rifle may be part of the problem.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •