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Thread: not only should all proxy hunting and fishing be banned

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Question not only should all proxy hunting and fishing be banned

    but it should be re-structured under subsistence.

    then those who wish to hunt and fish a susbistence life style should do it as they have done it for generations at they desire.

    they should use seal skin boats with no motors, dog teams, ect.

    truely they should use no snowmachines, 4 wheelers, motor boats should be allowed.

    then and only then will it be right

    thoughts, questions, comments?

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    Mr. ED is dead, do we need to get the bats back out...

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default ret25yo

    the real meaning of lets go clubbin

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    Default yeah, I'm speechless

    Quote Originally Posted by hooternanny View Post
    thoughts, questions, comments?
    Click on Search here in this forum, do some reading, and then ask the question again if you really mean it but next time try to justify with logic what you say.

    You asked.

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default my logic is in....

    that using the excuse of carry on traditions, living remote by choice then whinning about what you don't have and alike makes for a lopsided harvest advantage.

    certainly the validity of my point can be understood by some. modern day weapons may prove more merciful than running a herd of buffalo twoards a cliff in some peoples opinions. howerer, i don't believe goverment intervention should let some people have modern means while claiming diprivity

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    so your whole argument(discussion) is based on deprivity? some people enjoy the true benefits of game meat and fish in the diet. If I had a bad year I'd certainly feel honored if someone proxies for me.. I can have someone proxy for me but choose not to as I would like to try all available options first.

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default family man

    please give me some search hints as to what to enter in my search, help me get myself edjumacated on groups past opinion.

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    Member Huntress's Avatar
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    What was wrong with the other thread started on this same issue.....


    By the way, you can also combine subsistence hunts and proxy hunting. How's that any different?
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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default ret25yo

    it's not just diprivity. it's the whole "welfare system" approach. goverment intervention.

    i can't tell you how much meat i have given away, and you probably have too. i never have meat more than one year old. and i understand the good that comes from giving.

    by to harvest entirely a new limit for an individual that can't hunt, i don't agree with the beaurocy of it. as huntress in another post said she helped an old man until his dieing day. sure wild game is all that. but to allow those who would befriend an oldster with that in mind makes the risk not worth the trade off. i'm not saying she did that, but we all know some do.

    they take away from the legitimate ones, us all i hope. if care and compassion is there for someone elder of less able, we shouldn't have the goverment mandate to make it possible. we should do it out of the kindness of our own heart. make our own sacrifices if need be. but not allow it by law so if even it is just a few can play the system.

    our resource is more important than to allow that to continue. it never should have happened IMO. and should be stopped.

    if you care about someone that truely love alaskan wilderness, hunting fishing, you have plenty of ways of helping them with that. to allow hunting for another is not allowed otherwise, why is that?

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    Member Huntress's Avatar
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    This logic doesn't stick either. We have a large family. The one moose we kill a year goes to feed not only my husband and I, but our immediate family members who aren't privileged to time off, or whatever the case may be that their freezer is empty.
    Personally, I don't see why someone would "befriend" someone for all that extra work? Sure, if they went out and filled their tag and the tag of someone else, then kept all the meat that's a whole other issue. But those of us who rely on wild game in our diets shouldn't have to suffer just because someone in Soldotna doesn't think its right......Proxy is nothing more than another tool, when abused it should be dealt with. Otherwise those of us who take it upon ourselves to provide food for others with nothing more than a smile in return should do so.




    Quote Originally Posted by hooternanny View Post
    it's not just diprivity. it's the whole "welfare system" approach. goverment intervention.

    i can't tell you how much meat i have given away, and you probably have too. i never have meat more than one year old. and i understand the good that comes from giving.

    by to harvest entirely a new limit for an individual that can't hunt, i don't agree with the beaurocy of it. as huntress in another post said she helped an old man until his dieing day. sure wild game is all that. but to allow those who would befriend an oldster with that in mind makes the risk not worth the trade off. i'm not saying she did that, but we all know some do.

    they take away from the legitimate ones, us all i hope. if care and compassion is there for someone elder of less able, we shouldn't have the goverment mandate to make it possible. we should do it out of the kindness of our own heart. make our own sacrifices if need be. but not allow it by law so if even it is just a few can play the system.

    our resource is more important than to allow that to continue. it never should have happened IMO. and should be stopped.

    if you care about someone that truely love alaskan wilderness, hunting fishing, you have plenty of ways of helping them with that. to allow hunting for another is not allowed otherwise, why is that?
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    With regards to proxy hunting, just wait until you or someone close to you needs it. I've taken part in it once. I hunted my sister's caribou permit for her when she was in the midst of twice-daily radiation and chemotherapy. She is a single mother of three young children and depended on that meat to get her through a very, very tough year.

    Tell me, what is wrong with the proxy system when used as intended?

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    Ive Proxy hunted for a great many elders.

    Man, do I LOVE to proxy hunt

    Most who I hunt for participate in the "Work" while I was the one bringing it in, 'cept those who have spent their lives working their butts off, and are now old and weak, and though they may not have the strength to butcher, they are full of advise and gratatude, so I dont mind.
    Most, but not all,gave me gas and shells to do it.

    Every body was happy, everyone ate well, and these 70 to 99 year old folks had what couldent be bought in a store , nor as much pounds of meat for so cheap, a real savings for folks on a fixxed income.
    Most all of these elders hunted,fed and taught me a thing or two when I was young.

    Untill I read this thread, I thought doing such was good, and nobody made me do it, nobody whined.


    Actually, I still think its good.
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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default huntress

    if you have a large family you already have a lot of tags. did you really need to proxy after filling all your tags? i think not-

    if you really believe it to be worth the risk of your resource, to allow some that in some instances maybe don't even live here year round, maybe a slope worker who uses his buddy address to rob the pfd and all that but doesnt even live here at all to not only take his (un)fair share seriously?

    to allow anyone to rob us of our resource you and i will likely not agree on the subject and i understand that.

    i will tell you IMO that the sacrifce you made on the event you proxy hunted i believe would have more meaning for you personally had you gave him from what you obtained entirely upon your own, more than what the goverment gave you.

    again, it's just my opinion. the risk is not worth it.

    hunters find honey holes and see trophy potential, and many game to be taken. then they have all year to think about it.

    many old are lonely and seek nothing more than friendship. they can and are taken advantage of. i don't believe you condon that and the percetage you see a good and benifical of proxy hunting i would be interested in hearing.

    because if you don't feel all proxy hunters fallow the law, then you willingly accept all the colateral damage from proxy hunting as ok?

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default brian

    i did read the post before posting, and your previous experience proxy hunting.

    i do agree in the good of giving, charity never fails, but i don't believe that a goverment mandate enriched your experience to it highest potential when compared to the on going risk and exploitation that occurs even if it is a small percentage of evil do-ers.

    proxy hunting is unnecesarry and not worth the trade off

    nothing is wrong with it when it is done right, but thats the problem. once is too much

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default stranger

    i wholeheartly agree with what you did, done and are doing.

    i just believe in your case it should fall under the subsistence rules. you are not on the road system. carry on and i especially liked your responce. that was great, i'm a firm believer in that!

    but why should someone on a fly in from anchorage come to your area and harvest double there limit, thus saving on the flight and all expenses to take the meat to someone in urbania and split a double limit with no way of knowing where the harvest really goes? right next to a carrs grociery store i suppose no doubt.

    and no i don't like to eat that stuff, but were taking big game here, and be it a moose or 5 bou, to double that meat haul and pack it into town where it may or may not be given is just wrong.

    many now scrape animals of the road after vehicular death and that meat is SUPPOSED to go certain places to, but doesn't always. and thats a whole other animal. i'm talking ligitimate harvest and even in your case, if it was not allowed i am sure people in your area would find ways around it.

    many villagers hunt for the village, nuff said

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    If someones gonna abuse something, we certainly shouldnt just make it illegal, thats not the right approach to misuse.


    Thats the logic guncontrol activists use to justify total confiscation. do you belive City folks abuse the sysytem?




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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default not illegalize it

    re-structure it under subsistence

    i once heard someone say and old person they knew had died.

    i felt sad for them until the very next thing they said was, "i need to find a new proxy for my hunt"

    for me it is a subsistence issue and should be taken out of the main stream. those who want to give still should. there are plenty of ways around it. and it is not worth the risk as it is written

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    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    Default brian the moderator

    i tried to sleep but had this proxy bee-bee rolling round and had to throw in another 2 cents. it is obvious from my opinions expressed that i had past exposure to other proxy hunters that were not legit. or were they?

    my problem is that abuse of proxy can currently be performed legaly. the loop hole as i see it can better be explained this way.

    lets say a qualification of second degree kindred is put in place for proxy hunting for thoses linked to the road sysytem.

    next lets allow for those road accessable who want a proxy to apply for that, and those who wish to proxy hunt for an individual sign up to do so. thus all non kindred proxy hunts and there designees would be randomly matched. everyones needs met and closure the loop hole that allows the legal abuse in the process.

    my get rid of it all from the road system attitude is because i am not one for even more regualtion that is already. the whole thing as is is unnecessary IMO because i believe in people to be resourceful. there are other ways of obatining wild game for older citzens and those who want it without legitimately leaving the door open for the abuse from those who do infact abuse the system as it is.

    the allowed pre-arranged deals of the supposedly 'neighboorly' kind lets some preditors (in this case man) go hunting for prey ( in this case our seniors) well before the season starts.

    i see as a current risk and one not worth taking, and a risk unnecisary with very little realized benift that can not be obtained by other means.

    as said by another poster be it rural or urban-- illegal acts suck.

    proxy hunting actually costs outfitters money, say for example when a dad can take his son and make the most of an additonal harvest in the case of urbanites that wish to proxy hunt for others.

    the same goes for fishing. and the reality is that the idea of better get it while you can goes too far in all of us. reguardless of laws set forward it is really up to each of us to manage our own hunting grounds if you will, to ensure our own future sucess. proxy hunting multiplies harvest, without proper returns made to the system.

    the resources of this discussion and there sustainment, and all those who seek and intrest in them usually seek best practice game managment. i believe all could be better served by addressing proxy harvest as it is a current system with an existing gapping hole that drains on these resources. and for the sake of redundantcy, entirely unnecesary exposure to risk.

    ah, now can sleep like a baby, and take my beating tomorrow

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by hooternanny View Post
    i tried to sleep but had this proxy bee-bee rolling round and had to throw in another 2 cents. it is obvious from my opinions expressed that i had past exposure to other proxy hunters that were not legit. or were they?

    my problem is that abuse of proxy can currently be performed legaly. the loop hole as i see it can better be explained this way.

    lets say a qualification of second degree kindred is put in place for proxy hunting for thoses linked to the road sysytem.

    next lets allow for those road accessable who want a proxy to apply for that, and those who wish to proxy hunt for an individual sign up to do so. thus all non kindred proxy hunts and there designees would be randomly matched. everyones needs met and closure the loop hole that allows the legal abuse in the process.

    my get rid of it all from the road system attitude is because i am not one for even more regualtion that is already. the whole thing as is is unnecessary IMO because i believe in people to be resourceful. there are other ways of obatining wild game for older citzens and those who want it without legitimately leaving the door open for the abuse from those who do infact abuse the system as it is.

    the allowed pre-arranged deals of the supposedly 'neighboorly' kind lets some preditors (in this case man) go hunting for prey ( in this case our seniors) well before the season starts.

    i see as a current risk and one not worth taking, and a risk unnecisary with very little realized benift that can not be obtained by other means.

    as said by another poster be it rural or urban-- illegal acts suck.

    proxy hunting actually costs outfitters money, say for example when a dad can take his son and make the most of an additonal harvest in the case of urbanites that wish to proxy hunt for others.

    the same goes for fishing. and the reality is that the idea of better get it while you can goes too far in all of us. reguardless of laws set forward it is really up to each of us to manage our own hunting grounds if you will, to ensure our own future sucess. proxy hunting multiplies harvest, without proper returns made to the system.

    the resources of this discussion and there sustainment, and all those who seek and intrest in them usually seek best practice game managment. i believe all could be better served by addressing proxy harvest as it is a current system with an existing gapping hole that drains on these resources. and for the sake of redundantcy, entirely unnecesary exposure to risk.

    ah, now can sleep like a baby, and take my beating tomorrow
    So you would rather giudes sell off your state natural resources to out of staters, rather than feed alaskans?

  20. #20
    Member hooternanny's Avatar
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    the issue has nothing to do with out of staters

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