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Thread: Chignik Wolves

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Chignik Wolves

    Well....on the local news tonight the reporter said the Alaska State Troopers are saying there were some "missteps in the handling of the wolves and now they want them DEAD". They are going all out now with the helicopters to locate them. This is good medicine. The autopsy revealed indeed the teacher was killed by them. And...on the national newspapers, the reporters and readers are questioning the effectiveness of Alaska's Predator Control Program. A lot of people now feel it is falling short and needs stepped up. Of course I only hear what I want to hear, but it is sounding pretty good to me. But the teacher's father is defending the wolves. Just curious if others out there are willing to sacrifice a family member to the wolves survival? I find this notion beyond belief. There is no way we could ever hope to educate the ignorant masses of how to act around wild animals, as evidenced by the fact that even an educated teacher couldn't be taught. Wolves and civilization are a bad mix. I think they need to be immediately erradicated when detected. No apologies to The Friends of Animals.
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  2. #2
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Class(less) act....

    First of all, anyone who uses the horrific death of another person to advance their agenda is a person that needs more help than I can even imagine.

    I believe the term is "Chickenhawk".










    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Wolves and civilization are a bad mix. I think they need to be immediately erradicated when detected. No apologies to The Friends of Animals.
    I agree, civilization needs to be stomped out wherever it rears it's ugly head.

    .....Hey, makes as much sense as your soul-less rants......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  3. #3
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    You sound like a paranoid European of the middle ages.. Do you know, wolves are friends to vampires too.. and they can turn into werewolves.. Can you tell me how many intentional attacks on a human being that wolves have conducted in the past 100 years? Can you also tell me how many intentional attacks were conducted by bears? Coyotes? lions? or even bats in the past 100 years?? How about snakes? Or spiders? I remembered a man killed by a moose a few years back and many, many, people killed by bears and lions but I can’t remember 1 single non-rabid wolf attack.. Help me here, please.. I must be mis-informed.. The ONLY reason it hit the news is because it is so RARE; bless her heart and absolute condolences to her family but.. GET REAL.. more people are killed by other people in this state than all the other animal predators combined..




    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    Well....on the local news tonight the reporter said the Alaska State Troopers are saying there were some "missteps in the handling of the wolves and now they want them DEAD". They are going all out now with the helicopters to locate them. This is good medicine. The autopsy revealed indeed the teacher was killed by them. And...on the national newspapers, the reporters and readers are questioning the effectiveness of Alaska's Predator Control Program. A lot of people now feel it is falling short and needs stepped up. Of course I only hear what I want to hear, but it is sounding pretty good to me. But the teacher's father is defending the wolves. Just curious if others out there are willing to sacrifice a family member to the wolves survival? I find this notion beyond belief. There is no way we could ever hope to educate the ignorant masses of how to act around wild animals, as evidenced by the fact that even an educated teacher couldn't be taught. Wolves and civilization are a bad mix. I think they need to be immediately erradicated when detected. No apologies to The Friends of Animals.

  4. #4
    Member sharksinthesalsa's Avatar
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    Default you are mis-informed

    in the last five years there have been several wolf attacks by non-rabid wolves....i believe the term you are looking for however is habituated....there were a couple of attacks in canada with one death then there was the young boy in southeast who was dragged from his yard...these wolves were coming closer and closer to town and being fed by people and sooner or later the natural instincts of these predators will take hold and someone gets hurt...i myself have had a curious wolf wake me up in the middle of the night playing with my feet in my sleeping bag...this happened in a pullout along a highway that the state had a crew building new outhouses along...so i would also consider that a habituated wolf.. .i have the utmost respect and sympathy for that girl and her family....but the wolves were doing what wolves do....kill ....wolves are highly efficient predators, almost too good at what they do...and the whole "they only kill the sick and weak" thing is bs...countless times wolves have killed pregnant females and only eaten out the fetus....no human is a match for a pack of wolves i don't care how big your ego is.....the human element to this problem is management...and through mismanagement there are too few prey animals and too many predatory animals......granted the carrying capacity for predators is a much smaller number than that of the prey species and in some cases with so few prey animals the capacity for predators may only allow a few individuals or pairs of wolves....the predator control programs work..period...the department has seen an increase in moose populations where these programs are being conducted....from zero calves to twenty plus calves per one hundred cows in 16b in one year....the bottom line is both predator and prey must be managed...management of predators through regulation and legislature allowing the maximum amount of these animals to be removed from the equation.....and management of prey through only allowing a selective and limited harvest...i do not want to see the wolves or black bears or brown bears eradicated any more than any tree huggin' bunny lover out there, i believe that these animals are truly amazing and every chance i have to encounter any of them i am truly in awe at these wonders of nature and the same goes for moose and caribou and deer and ptarmigan or whatever......however we cannot just take our hands off and say ok everything will be fine...conservation through management is the only way to keep any type of balance in the system
    "early to bed, early to rise, fish like hell, and make up lies"

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    think they need to be immediately erradicated when detected.
    Res - To clarify, do you think all wolves should be eradicated? If it were possible to completely wipe out Alaska's wolf population, would you support such a goal?

    Incidentally, the previous post's point that more people have been killed by moose than have been killed by wolves is accurate. What happened is tragic, but it is beyond rare.

  6. #6
    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    rare it is, but it goes to show that wolves DO NOT TAKE OUT THE SICK AND THE WEAK as "studies" are inclined to suggest...I once watched 2 wolves take down 11 dall sheep (6 ewes, 1 young ram and 4 lambs) on a mountain in the talkeetnas...they didnt eat any of the kill.....none of those sheep appeared sick or weak, and i doubt if they were. Wolves kill for fun more often than not. Still wolves have thier place in the world just as anything else does.



    Release Lake Trout

  7. #7
    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    too bad about the teacher, but i do support the village of chignik in their mission to eradiacte that particular pack of wolves. They have now learned that a human can be relatively easy prey.



    Release Lake Trout

  8. #8

    Default

    I don't know where these misguided wolf lovers are from, but where I'm from, we always PUT HUMAN BEINGS FIRST. Any thing else is simply beyond reason. They way wolves are being defended, I wonder if they are "Wolf Lovers" or "Human Haters"? Come on, if the wolves out in Chignik are that brazen, wouldn't it benefit them if they are taught that humans are to be avoided? After all, should you ever require emergency medical help, it will be humans responding. The wolves could give a care.

  9. #9
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    Default attacks

    Im do not think all wolves should be eradicated, however wolf attacks are not as rare as some here suggest. Sorry Brian but I think wolves have killed a few more people than moose. I have kept some articles over the years and heres what I have. Im sure a quick search on the web could uncover more.

    In the years 96/97 in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh wolves killed or badly injured 74. Some investigators believe there were more killed than was reported.

    In Ontario Canada in recent times we know of 5 people that were attacked.

    April 26 2000 Yakutat AK a boy was attacked

    July 1 2000 Vargas Island BC a 23 year old male was attacked, took 50 stitches.

    Of course there was the fellow killed in Saskatchwean.

    In the 1980s wolf attacks on Vancouver Island became almost common for a time.

    There are many more documented cases of wolf attacks where the person had a weapon and was able to defend themselves. Its interesting to note most deaths by wolves has happened where the local populace has no way to defend itself or put in place any predator control.

  10. #10
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    I wonder what the bunny huggers will say for an excuse for these attacks. Oh those poor wolves just don't have anything to eat, that's why they did it. They only kill for food you know, and only the sick, young and old.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

  11. #11

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Res - To clarify, do you think all wolves should be eradicated? If it were possible to completely wipe out Alaska's wolf population, would you support such a goal?
    Brian,
    I have to think you and I both know that is an impossibility, therefore a moot "goal". Too much of Alaska is disignated "wilderness" for that to happen. That said, I do support the goal of erradicating the wolves when and where we can. Human civilization and dominance must reign, or.....we end up with some of our kind substantiating Darwins Theory. We have the knowledge and where with all to prevent it, so why not do so. Complacency, ignorance and denial has no place in how we should live our lives, as far as I am concerned.

    As for the Moose, well...any one of them that becomes roque or presents a clear and present danger to humans, should be dealt with swiftly and with permanence, just as the current law provides. Simply because people in the past have failed to do so, doesn't justify not doing it at all. More often than not, the humans killed by moose were preventable, but people failed to act because of their ignorance, political corrrectness or denial of the threat.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  12. #12
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    Default Bostock

    Im reading a book written by H.S. Bostock right now, he was a geoligist that traveled throughout BC/Yukon in the early 1900s. He documents the decline of the ungulate population and rise of the wolf population in some of the areas he visited. Oh yea he was also attacked by a wolf and killed it at 7 yards.
    Ive always thought it would be interesting to know just how many of those outdoorsmen/women who go missing were killed by wolves.

  13. #13
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    Ultimately they are just big smart dogs. Just like a neighborhood dogs attacking sheep, children or anything else they absolutely WILL kill just for fun. They also tend to repeat whatever success they have found. How many dogs did they kill in the state last year? They were to the point of trying to take them right off the lease with the owner on the other end!

    While I am for predator control I am not for predator eradication, that said I don't have a lot of tolerance for anything that can eat my kids living next to my house. I like bears in the mountains or woods. Bears in the yard are destined to be hung on the wall or stretched out for the pup to sleep on. If I was in an area with an aggressive wolf pack they would get the same treatment.

  14. #14
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Its part of the deal when you live in a place like Alaska, especially a remote place....you have to protect YOURSELF!

    How many of us wander around in the woods unaware that there are bear or moose about?

    Its tragic what happened to that gal. And that (or those) wolves need to be put down asap, because they will probably do it again...but living in Alaska comes with some assumed risk, and if you arent prepared to live with that, there are plenty of "civilized" places you can move to!!

    Anyone who advocates total eradication of predators is as guilty of making Alaska "Californiazed" as those who move up here and try to make it like where they came from, IMO. Maybe more so....

  15. #15

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    Its part of the deal when you live in a place like Alaska, especially a remote place....you have to protect YOURSELF!
    Sounds real good if you read it real fast. Matter of fact the faster I read it, the better it sounded. But....then I got to thinkin'.....This is something that cannot be taught to the masses, as evidenced by this latest incident, whereas an educated, intinerant school teacher/worker was recruited and placed in a remote location. Did she know the risks? Obviously not. Could she have "protect"ed herself. IMO, not likely, but I can't say that with certainty. But I am betting that she was taught that wolves didn't present a danger to humans, thru the media, educators and Disney movies. So I ask; How do you tell an educated school teacher that all she has been taught and conditioned to think all her life, is just not so? Think she would have believed you? I doubt it.

    This is why Sheep Herders have Sheepdogs.

    This begs the question: Do we as a society stop putting people in harm's way, or do we offer some degree of protection when we do so?
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  16. #16
    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Thats a valid point, Res.

    I guess I look at it like wearing seatbelts or helmets. Do we as a society have a responsibility to protect people from situations they put themselves into? Maybe thats a whole nother debate

    Maybe we should make everyone crossing the border sign a liability waiver saying they accept the risks of setting foot in AK...


    BTW, Res, apologies for the wolf/rapist comment. Saw an opportunity to make a funny and a point at one time...no personal offense meant. We just strongly disagree on things, but no "hate" on my part...

  17. #17

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    BTW, Res, apologies for the wolf/rapist comment. Saw an opportunity to make a funny and a point at one time...no personal offense meant. We just strongly disagree on things, but no "hate" on my part...
    No biggie. I considered putting a shotgun in my mouth and pulling the trigger, when I read your comment, but....then I thought that would be letting you off the hook, so I decided to hang around awhile longer and antagonize you.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    I'd still buy you a beer at the TP if we ever met, lol. As long as we stayed off the topics of wolves, bears, religion, politics and dogmushers we may get along fine

    At the very least, you keep the discussions interesting...

  19. #19
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    One of the main problems we have with newcomers and too many residents is that biking and jogging on the edges of what is essentially wilderness where predators like wolves and bears live is one of the easiest ways to run into problems, especially when those bikers or joggers are wearing an Ipod or what have you and aren't really paying attention to their environment.

    This can evoke a "chase" response by a predator who just instinctively reacts. We've seen it numerous times now in the Anchorage area with bears. And obviously we recognized the need to educate those who recreate in the outdoors on these dangers.

    There is always a kneejerk response to make a place safe by removing the dangers, eradicating the predators completely in areas where humans live or in outlying areas where they recreate. And while I agree that any animal(s) involved in attacks on humans should be put down, it is truly sad to hear any ostensible hunter propose eradication of all wolves.

    I was surrounded by a pack of 8 wolves once one fall night, unarmed, after walking from moose camp to a beaver pond in the full moonlight to just sit and watch for beavers. It was thee most incredible outdoor experience I've ever had. To this day, recalling that scene...SLOWLY walking back to camp and shining a mini-maglite as a sort of weapon on both sides of the dry wash where the wolves were walking beside me, and seeing the green glow of all those eyeballs, I don't know if the wolves were just toying with me or sizing me up for dinner. It was a profound experience I wouldn't trade for anything, and it taught me a great deal about using my own senses in better ways when out in the woods.

    The first thing I told myself when I realized I had been surrounded? "Now Mark, whatever you do, DON'T RUN!"

  20. #20

    Thumbs up

    I have to think that everyone reading this forum has the forethought and education to know what they need to do with wild animals. But when addressing the matter in the context of how to handle them with respect to the general public, well that is a mite bit different. We will never be able to pry the IPod out of their Cold Dead Fingers. NEVER
    There are really only two logical choices:
    We can protect and defend the Sheep (that will never recognize danger, no matter the what).

    We can continue to have them picked off, one at a time.

    If we choose the latter, we gotta be willing to put our feeling's aside and accept the losses. I personally think this is a very callous approach in dealing with our bretheren. Seems to be just a bit archaic and much akin to the old ways of waging war against enemies, just keep throwing more people toward the cannons, hoping they will run out of balls and powder before we run out of people. I kinda like the surgical strikes of todays modern warfare, where you assess the threat, ID the target and KILL IT.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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