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Thread: Rural communities?

  1. #1
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Default Rural communities?

    Is there a map or list showing what communities qualify under the federal definition of "rural"?
    I can see palmer, wasilla, and butte all not qualifying but what about sutton, houston, talkeetna, and what ever they call the people that live at the end of KGB?
    The definition of the law calls for any "community" with less than 2500 people to be considered "rural" yet there is plenty of gray area to allow combining multiple towns or unincorporated CDP's (census designated place) into one larger region. Under the basic designation Sutton would be rural but if combined w/ Palmer and Farm loop it clearly would not If sutton is not, then what about Chickaloon? If it is rural then how do they go about deciding that?

    So is there a dang map? If so who the heck is hiding it?

  2. #2
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Talkeetna is not considered rural for subsistance. Neither is Trapper Creek which is smaller.
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  3. #3

    Wink

    If you have to ask, you ain't.

    No maps, the rules keep changing and new communities are becoming 1st Class every month or two. The requirements are 'fluid' as the Fed Boys say.
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    Just move to Hope, Alaska and be Happy for the rest of you life.........

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Well, Lu, forst off you need to be more specific. Are you talking state or Fed? Since all state residents are qualified subsistence users under state law, they don't use the term, "rural" much. Tier II application scoring I think hasd some referance to rual, or at least costs of goods where the applicant lives.
    Fed rules use the term rural. Not sure if there is a map. Try and look under Office of Subsistence Management, on the net. The feds put out a paper reg book, maybe there is a list in there.
    The size of the community is only part of the equation.
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  6. #6

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    If you go to the Federal Subsistence Management Program Current Wildlife Regulations and click on General Information, it contains maps that show the non-rural areas of the state. So if you live outside of those areas then you would be considered rural. The information starts on page 6 of the regulations.

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    I stand corrected. My town is considered "rural". However, that description has no benefits because there are no Federal subsistance hunts for big game species in my game unit.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I think if you have a chain store or resterant of any kind you probably ain't rural. If you can go to town to buy a new new car you might not be rural. If you have ever seen a new new car you also might not be rural.If you have a bridge that ain't mostly all timber you might not be rural. If you towns police force has more folks than half the towns in the state you might not be rural. If you can trace your family back to any kind of animal your probably good to go

  9. #9

    Wink

    And...some folks can literally see Rural Alaska from their front porch, yet not live in a Rural area. They live on the wrong side of the line.
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    Member aksheephuntress's Avatar
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    ....Wow!
    -this is a good subject...

    -I have always kind of wondered if Seward was rural....?
    -I've been told it is...but, never really looked into it-

    -definition of rural is having a population of under 2500 people?? .....but, then that means we aren't (pop. here in Seward is supposed to be around 3200, or so....)

    BUT.....I wonder if it gets factored in that a quarter of our entire population in Seward is the prisoners at Spring Creek Correctional Facility....
    (true fact...)
    ....a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed....

  11. #11

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by aksheephuntress View Post
    BUT.....I wonder if it gets factored in that a quarter of our entire population in Seward is the prisoners at Spring Creek Correctional Facility....
    (true fact...)
    No it is not a factor. Juneau's populace consists of three-quarters of people that need to be relocated to Seward and it is Not Rural.
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    there will continue to be lines drawn and people frustrated with them.

    personally, I am pretty darn satisfied with the opportunities that I have.

  13. #13
    Member aksheephuntress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    No it is not a factor. Juneau's populace consists of three-quarters of people that need to be relocated to Seward and it is Not Rural.
    ....You know, Akres.....I've been trying to figure you out for some time, now ......and my brain hurts!
    ....a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed....

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by aksheephuntress View Post
    ....You know, Akres.....I've been trying to figure you out for some time, now ......and my brain hurts!



    Old Sourdough saying, "Some puzzles have too many pieces missing. Time better spent looking for Moose Pass Gas"...

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    there will continue to be lines drawn and people frustrated with them.

    personally, I am pretty darn satisfied with the opportunities that I have.
    I am generally satisfied with the opportunities I have, but some of those opportunities are about to be lost if plans move forward for more rural-preference hunts. The one I'm referring to specifically is the Kenai Mountains caribou hunt. Hope and Sunrise are being given being given "traditional and customary" status for the Kenai Mountains caribou herd, meaning that very soon we may see a dramatic reduction or complete elimination of the number of drawing permits that ADF&G gives out. I would not be so satisfied about that.

  16. #16

    Default

    Federal subsistence is (right or wrong) sufficiently complicated to make any broad brush stroke assumptions about qualification to do this or that useless without a more specific question. "No hunts in my game unit" doesn't consider other aspects of subsistence (though in fairness this is the game management forum ), nor whether you might be qualified to hunt in another game unit.

    You need to read the summary info and then the specific info on game unit and species on any particular question one might have.
    http://alaska.fws.gov/asm/pdf/wildregs/entire.pdf

  17. #17
    Member aksheephuntress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Old Sourdough saying, "Some puzzles have too many pieces missing. Time better spent looking for Moose Pass Gas"...
    ......LOL!-that's great!
    ....but, now I'll have to tell the joke so people won't wonder what you're talking about!

    ....and I'm having an even harder time figuring YOU out!
    -lol-
    ....a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed....

  18. #18

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    I am easy, I am smarter than a rock, but dumber than a stick, and proud of it.........

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    more rural-preference hunts. The one I'm referring to specifically is the Kenai Mountains caribou hunt. Hope and Sunrise are being given being given "traditional and customary" status for the Kenai Mountains caribou herd, meaning that very soon we may see a dramatic reduction or complete elimination of the number of drawing permits that ADF&G gives out.
    I can understand the frustration with this. But it is true that the draw hunts are a privilege aren't they? Remember that in the most recent caribou hay day down there before many of the fires there were virtually no moose on the kenai pen. now there is a general open moose season down there, right?

    I guess I think that there has historically been an inherent local preference based on travel limitations, familiarity with an area, etc. What we now see with most human lifestyles is that material wealth has eliminated a good portion (not all) of this inherent local preference, and now much more it is about wealth and connections. The access is so much easier now (though much of it costs a bundle) to go somewhere you aren't familiar with at all. This really does change things.

    I guess local food makes sense to me in principal. Not saying that "rural preference" or local preference makes sense in current practice just things to think about.

  20. #20
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    You make some fair points, but with regards to the Kenai Mts caribou, those caribou were transplanted there. They're not a native herd to begin with - and now we're going to give two communities "customary and traditional" status on this population of animals? How does that make the first bit of sense?

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