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Thread: Hunting with a cell phone?

  1. #1
    Member skagdog's Avatar
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    Default Hunting with a cell phone?

    What's your favorite phone to use to hunt Bison in Delta?

    http://newsminer.com/view/full_story...dow_left_top_4

    Personally, I'll take my iPhone because it has a gun app that sounds like a bazooka!

  2. #2
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    I want to preface comments on this by saying that the Delta bison issue is extremely complicated, and that there is a real need to not let the herd continue to grow any larger. Meaning, we need to ensure somehow that we harvest a certain amount of bison every year to keep the herd in check at a certain level.

    Okay, having said all that though, I don't support the state creating a system by where we have to violate fair chase principles in order to ensure harvests. The allowance of cell phone and radio communications between hunters on the ground in order to direct hunters to animals is clearly a violation of fair chase ethics. Keep in mind the Board of Game just narrowly voted down another proposal to also allow same-day airborne hunting of these bison, and air-to-ground communications (the vote was 4-3).

    One could argue that air-to-ground radio comms is already taking place, just as Chair Judkins argued that cell phones and radios are already being used on the ground, so why not legalize it. I just don't buy those type of arguments.

    I talked with a lot of people on the Delta bison issue. Many were big fair-chase advocates who just didn't see any other viable solutions to the problems with this herd, who supported radio and cell-phone comms, and the air-to-ground comms. Again, it's complicated. I just don't like to see the state create these types of situations. Would have liked to see other alternate solutions than setting this kind of precedent.

  3. #3
    Member skagdog's Avatar
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    I don't really dig the "it's happening so let's legalize it" arguement either. To me, when you add this sort of technology to a hunt it loses something.

    I enjoy my time out in God's Country where I can't be called in to work or anywhere else for that matter. Legal or not, I just don't think I'll be taking my phone affield. When I'm out there, there is nothing more important than enjoying my free time and hopefully killing a (big)critter! Nothing.

    Obviously this only applies to the Delta Hunt so it's really a non-issue for me as I have never recieved a tag....until this year....right?.....(fingers crossed)

  4. #4
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    Since I didn't get a permit (I'd hunt it), they just need to increase the number of permits.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    I want to preface comments on this by saying that the Delta bison issue is extremely complicated, and that there is a real need to not let the herd continue to grow any larger. Meaning, we need to ensure somehow that we harvest a certain amount of bison every year to keep the herd in check at a certain level.

    Okay, having said all that though, I don't support the state creating a system by where we have to violate fair chase principles in order to ensure harvests. The allowance of cell phone and radio communications between hunters on the ground in order to direct hunters to animals is clearly a violation of fair chase ethics. Keep in mind the Board of Game just narrowly voted down another proposal to also allow same-day airborne hunting of these bison, and air-to-ground communications (the vote was 4-3).

    One could argue that air-to-ground radio comms is already taking place, just as Chair Judkins argued that cell phones and radios are already being used on the ground, so why not legalize it. I just don't buy those type of arguments.

    I talked with a lot of people on the Delta bison issue. Many were big fair-chase advocates who just didn't see any other viable solutions to the problems with this herd, who supported radio and cell-phone comms, and the air-to-ground comms. Again, it's complicated. I just don't like to see the state create these types of situations. Would have liked to see other alternate solutions than setting this kind of precedent.
    I fully agree with you on this. I don't like "opening the door" to something like this even if it appears to be a solution to this one issue. It is going to make it a lot easier for them to allow this in other hunts if they see similar harvest issues with the excuse/justification "well, we are allowing it on that other hunt, why not here?" I think there are other good means for achieving the harvest goal without giving up on the basic fundamentals of hunting.

    I don't know what the communications coverage is in Delta, but it seems like they might be able to do something along the lines of other registration hunts. Require people to "call in" each morning before heading out to the field to make sure the hunt is still open (hasn't reached the harvest goal/limit yet). Require that people report their kill with 6 or 12 hours of the kill. This would be similar to the requirements for hunting on Elmendorf and Ft. Rich where you have to notify the MP's so they can come out and verify a legal kill. You wouldn't need someone to come out and verify the Delta kill, but you would just use the required call-in to keep tabs on the number of animals taken. Once the quota is reached, they end the hunt (update the next day's phone message). With this method, they could offer more total permits to help ensure that their quota is reached. I do realize that it would/could mean that hunters spend time and money to get up there and prepare and then can't hunt if the quote is reached before they start, but that isn't a new thing for hunting in Alaska. If people were made aware of this possibility up front, they are accepting that it may happen and should be prepared for it to happen.

    Just my thoughts. If we are going to allow electronic communications, they might as well just herd up the animals in a fenced in area and have each one waiting for the hunter when they get there since it is no longer a hunt but rather a salvage.

  6. #6
    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    Like it was said, people are already using phones to hunt with. How could fish and game efficiently enforce the rule of not using this? I don't really agree with people using phones, radios and such, but whether it is law or not, people break the rules. I don't see making it OK to use phones as the solution to this problem. To sum it up, I don't see the use phones or radio's to hunt with being any different then hiring an air taxi to fly a person into an area where the air taxi operator knows game is present. Fair chase is something that can be debated forever with no one winning the argument

  7. #7

    Wink

    Let's be honest on this. The Delta hunt has never been a "hunt". It has always been a "Gentleman's Hunt". Whereas one applies for special privelege, goes to class, spends everynight in a warm bed, eats a storebought breakfast before driving out to the herd, locate the herd (almost invariably by communicating with others in some manner), shooting an animal, field dress (often with the assistance of a tractor, backhoe, snowmachine and/or wheeler and more often than not take the animal to a professional butcher for processing. So PLEEEEZE, let's just not get this wadded up into the "fair chase" aspects of hunting. Doesn't apply, never did. It is nothing more than an opportunity for the Lucky to get some good meat, nothing more. How that meat gets from the herd to the table should be up to the Lucky. It is already beauracratic enough, lets not add to it. Let folks kill the desired quota in any manner they see fit. It ain't a hunt, as some profess, bottomline.

    It is a meat run, no different than people gathering Halibut off the boats, using radio and cell phone to help one another target the schools and bite on a given day.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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  8. #8
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    Many hunters find the Delta Bison hunt to be quite difficult and spend $$$$$ on gasoline only to go home without a bison. Some farmers wanted to be able to contact hunters when the herd is in their crops to minimize damage.

  9. #9
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I don't know if I buy the "slippery slope" argument but I am not a fan of using coms to guide people to game and don't think it needs to be legalized in general. I am not sure if it would be the best answer in this situation but I don't think it should be totally ruled out if is. Definitely a last resort.
    I agree that many people do use them already, I am sure there are a few pilots that fly over the mat-su valley and call their buds on the ground. There are also plenty of us out there who follow the letter of the law. Last year on our goat hunt I got the joy of watching a couple hunting buddies in the distance play cat and mouse on 3 miles of rugged mountain face with a goat literally ALL DAY. The whole time sitting there with the Garmin rhino in the chest pack.

  10. #10
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Never drew a Delta tag so I don't know from personal experience (but I did draw a Chitina tag that went unfilled. That, my friends, is a fair chase hunt, but I digress)

    A couple of "If's"
    If locating the herd is a recurring obstacle to culling, which this "hunt" seems to be, and if Delta area farmers want the herd reduced...

    Then why not set up shooting towers and bait them?

    Additionally, is an increase in tags in order?

  11. #11
    New member akhunter02's Avatar
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    Default Why

    Why the change? to help reduce crop damage thats why, if the farmers want to reduce the crop damage then they ALL should be helping the hunters, not by using a phone, but by allowing access, not by refusing access or charging trespass fees. If the farmers dont want the hunters on thier land then they should have to deal with crop damage or they can fence in thier property to keep bison out.

  12. #12
    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    This cell phone thing is wrong all the way around.

    As akhunter02 said if they don't want the buff in thier field's wave the fee's for the hunter's on thier land's.

    Being as I'm on this buff subject, there was some talk about a potato farm going in out there. They were worried about how much damage that the buff would do to there crop's. How many of you have seen a moose eat a potato plant? When I was a kid we had acre's of potato's growing and that was before the ag project got started and the buff were in town. Not once was there an incendent of moose or buff eating our potato's. They don't like them. I'm not saying that they won't walk across them, but if the feed that they don't like is'nt there, those crop's are pretty safe.

    Now if you want to grow cabbage, broccili or letteus, watch out, but for some reason they don't like potatos.

    If it's so hard to hunt these animal's and make the quota, I would say that this would be called a hunt, and they should offer more tag's and keep a closer eye on what's happening. If they just want to cull the herd, then take some chopper's out and herd the number into a fenced area and let the people come in and shoot them. Is that what you want to see happen?

    This whole thing has me just about as pissed off as the cow hunt's.

    As Bushrat said I'm tired of the B.S. that is going on with the board, A.Cs and the people that think they will gain something of these rule's.

    O.K. I'm done, my 2 cent's

  13. #13
    Member polarisblake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VernAK View Post
    Many hunters find the Delta Bison hunt to be quite difficult and spend $$$$$ on gasoline only to go home without a bison. Some farmers wanted to be able to contact hunters when the herd is in their crops to minimize damage.
    I really don't see the problem in having the Farmer contact the Hunter. As some of you may recall about two moose seasons ago a person on this forum had his wife call him to tell him there was a legal moose near. Now after much BS the person was cleared of any wrong doing and everything was deemed legal. How this would be any different I am not sure.

  14. #14
    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    And if I remember right polar, it was a cow, and they went out and backed thier pickup to it and hauled it off, well if that's what you want to see for the future,???????????????

    And this was a moose we are talking about. Not a buff.

    Hey go ahead and change everything you came up here for. The only one's you will be hurting is youself's.

  15. #15
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    Part of the boards reasoning was every one is already doing it so we might as well make it legal.

    maybe we should all start killing moose after the end of the season, might get a longer season out of it.

  16. #16
    Member MNViking's Avatar
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    I think there are two types of communication here.

    1. "Hey Bob, there's some bison/moose/deer/coyotes/wolves on my farm. I can see them out the window."

    2. "Bob, I can see you from this hill I'm on. You are about to come over a hill and the animals will be just past that group of trees at 2 o'clock"

    I personally think #1 is o.k.; #2 is cheating.
    Finally, Brad Childress is GONE!

  17. #17
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    In relation to the Delta Junction herd, I can't see a problem with using cell phones or radios as long as it's legal. In fact, a lot of people contact the land owners in that area ahead of time, and sometimes the land owner directs the hunter to the bison for he or she to kill. This type of hunt is nearly the same as a "fenced" hunt, because while the bison there are wild, most times they roam in private land. Also, the idea is to reduce the number of bison to keep the herd stable.

    It's a completely different thing hunting moose, since one isn't hunting a moose or two from a herd.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MNViking View Post
    #2 is cheating.
    not cheating. but that is a lame, lazy animal shooter. obviously with the delta buff hunt being what it is this makes sense but i will not use it up there when i draw my tag this year.

    have to hope the notion of we're doing it so let's make it ok isn't too contagious there captain t. seems i hear that being used to justify a lot these days.

  19. #19

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    It took my dad 4 trips to Delta to finally fill his tag. He was getting pretty discouraged about it, but kept at it because he knew it was a rare opportunity. We stalked the bison for over a mile through some pretty soft drifts, and butchered the bull through the night, then took our worn out butts to bed on the snowy ground in an arctic oven tent. His 3rd trip out was in 30 below in the arctic oven and they ran into snowmachine problems. Easy hunt my ass.

    People can make this hunt what they want. My dad wanted a quick meat hunt, but didn't get it. There are reasons why the past several years have only yielded a ~70% success rate, and this year is only around 60% as of right now.

    Cell coverage was terrible out there. We had a couple of spots where we could get signals, and we tried calling the Schultz farms a couple of times using the cell phones, but only to meet up with them and get permission to hunt their fields. If they didn't charge for killing an animal on their farms, we might have been out there on our first trip and shot a bison on their farm. Could this have moved the herd off of their farm and saved them some crop$?

    I wonder how many people get a tag and don't hunt it every year? Could they implement a system like they have in Nunivak with the alternates list?

  20. #20
    RMK
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    Default The Delta Hunt

    I drew a permit about seven years ago, and I got a bison. It took me two trips to Delta.

    First off, it's not really my kind of hunting. I don't like to see another person much less houses and cars when I am hunting. Having said that, if you want a bison, you have to go where the permit allows.

    I shot mine in the state owned "panorama" fields by myself. I didn't see the need for outside communications. But If someone calls up from their farm and reports the herd walking by, maybe that's not such a big deal.

    When people start using planes, and calling in the recon report to hunters on the ground that's probably a problem.

    Anyone who frequents Lake Louise in the fall has heard the caribou reports over the VHF. I'm sure it's technically illegal, but it goes on.

    I like that idea of "alternate" permits if under harvest is a problem. My five years is up, so I'm back in the lottery again.

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