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Thread: How'd you like to snare black and grizzly bears?

  1. #1
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default How'd you like to snare black and grizzly bears?

    Some interesting developments at this Board of Game meeting. In the works from ADFG leadership is a push to legalize the snaring of both black and grizzly bears outside of any predator control implementation plan.

    Interior grizzlies would be considered bycatch. Details to come at the next (November) meeting.

    That's all I can say for now, but I should be honest and say I'm really disappointed with the direction (and 180degree position shift) our new ADFG leadership is going.

    Going to fight this one, and hope others will join me. Really can understand the foot snaring of black bears in Maine and Idaho and some Canadian provinces where there are no grizzlies. But here in Alaska, one of the last places where we have grizz...one wonders just how far this whole jihad on bears is gonna go.

    Sigh,

  2. #2
    Member sledhands's Avatar
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    Default Snaring

    What are the regs on bear snaring likely to be Mark.

    Trapper in immediate vicinity?

    I would sure hate to stumble on a snared bear taking a little rest from his struggle in a alder patch armed with a couple of trail cameras.

    Will there be a minimum cable size?

    Sounds like risky business with some serious liability issues.

    It is not a bait station will the sets have to be clearly marked?

    Locations recorded with ADF&G before setting?

    What kind of thought lacking individual would have brown/grizz as a by catch? They aren't fish they don't lay thousands of eggs at a time and run around in schools!

    Thanks for the post
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    Member Jackson's Dad's Avatar
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    Default

    This seems to be a bad idea IMO. This sort of thing is exactly what the environmental groups will use as fodder for their campaigns and give Alaskans a black eye. Maybe I am wrong or paranoid (or both).

    On a side note, I know that the state sets goals for numbers of moose in particular units dependent on carrying capacity etc. Do they do the same thing with bears, i.e. have population targets per unit/area?

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    Member pike_palace's Avatar
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    I don't like the bear snaring idea either. You wanna bait them, fine, but snares is not needed. That sounds like a prime recipe to get hurt or some bad PR.
    "Ya can't stop a bad guy with a middle finger and a bag of quarters!!!!"- Ted Nugent.

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    Angry Alaskan Bear and Wolf Jihad

    Bear and Wolf or predator Jihad is not the answer!!!

    After attending the grasspoops ineptness for Anchorage's committee election/meeting... sorry to say - the state of affairs was absent minded in hands of scientifically blinded... commanding carhart and camouflage clad retarded.

    I can say - Iíve rarely been surrounded by such majority lacking semblance of competency or sense of awareness. So much for insightful call of the wild with sensible prudence! Sadly, the driving political folly departs from natureís living testimony with fallout resting on human indiscretions, conquests, and recklessness.

  6. #6
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default More info

    http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/g...s/06164bog.pdf

    Above link is the Bear Conservation and Management Policy that the state works under.

    According to what ADFG told me, between now and the next November BOG meeting, the state will work to reclassify interior grizzly bears so they are not listed the same as coastal brown bears, the thought being that coastal brown bear tags should cost more, cuz those bears are worth a lot more money to hunters. Then, a new Bear Conservation and Management Policy will be pushed, because right now, that policy precludes the trapping/snaring of any bears outside of a predator control implementation plan.

    This is centered (for now) around proposals to snare/trap black bears in the Fort Yukon area. ADFG leadership wants the public to be able to snare black bears without having to go through the process of a bear control plan. Right now the only place bears can be snared is in units where we have a bear control program in place. ADFG leadership also wants the public to be able to legally catch grizzly bears as "incidental" catches, completely outside any predator control implementation plan.

    Region III manager and bios are having this rammed down their throats from on high, from the new leadership. It comes down to either retiring or quitting if anyone wants to or tries to just say no. Last I heard from leadership is this would just be a small management tool to start, around the Fort Yukon area. But I have a hard time believing that it won't spread.

    One of the other completely bizarre things about all this is that there is no real efficacy. Snares would still have to be checked every 24 hours. Few trappers will really travel far and be able to check snares every 24 hours. On top of that, it won't really add up to killing enough bears to decrease moose calf predation in a meaningful way.

    Keep in mind that the new snaring program in 16B was carried out with use of helicopters, and participants were at snaring camps 24/7. And that any grizzly bears caught had to be either released or euthanized by trained ADFG personnel. Grizz bycatch in that program was just below 10%. And it will continue this summer.

    That's the latest info I have. I imagine I'll catch flak for posting this publicly, and I want to stress that any criticism isn't at all directed at anyone personally, rather at the idea of doing this. The only real reason I'm posting this is because, frankly, I'd like to see this nipped in the bud before it gets rolling.

    In talking with others here at the BOG meeting on this, there is a common line of thinking that the Board would not pass such a thing this November. That may be true. My view, however, is that having our state Department of Fish and Game ostensibly advocating for this publicly, and the ensuing knowledge of it among the public, is not only a black eye on hunting, but our Department of Fish and Game is losing credibility as to just what their function is, and if all this (bear conservation policy, reclassifying of bears etc) goes through it will take a long time to undo.

    I'll be talking more about this, and am looking to get a letter off to ADFG and Governor with as many sign-ons as I can to oppose going through with the legalization of snaring black and grizzly bears outside of a bear control program.

    Sincerely,

  7. #7
    Member walk-in's Avatar
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    I think this is a bad, bad idea for a number of reasons...not the least of which is the truly horrible publicity it is sure to bring which will affect all hunters. We don't need this.
    As someone who considers himself primarily a bear hunter, I have not been real happy with the push to view bears simply as predators in order to implement "control" programs. There are plenty of us who value bears as game animals and would be happy to kill more bears if they simply loosened up the bag limits and extended the seasons. It wasn't that many years ago that the bag limit for grizz in most of Unit 20 was 1 every 4 years. That got changed to 1 per year, but we still have the closed season through the summer. This proposal seems like overkill and totally irresponsible to me. I doubt it will achieve what they want it to, and it is just asking for trouble and abuse.
    I'm in total agreement with not charging for grizz tags in the Interior, ending the sealing requirement for black bears, and requiring only the salvage of either meat or hides of black bears. Why not leave it at that for now. If, in a few years, it is determined that there are still not enough bears being killed, then go back and look at what else can be done to increase the harvest.
    We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.
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  8. #8

    Default Thanks Mark

    for reporting on that. I have my feelings on this and I think this whole deal is a bad deal if it is not kept within a bear control area. Sure makes me wonder what is going on?

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Default

    i would hope before they stooped to snaring bears, that they would just liberalize the hunting seasons and bag limits first. i see alot to sows and cubs getting caught in snares..curiosity animals that they are.
    this bad news, i hope it don't come to this.

    it just seems theres been a shift in the last five years for predator eradication..and not managment. any means neccesarry to kill the bears do it! but yet, they won't even let me shoot two in one year (aside from unit 16). not for me thanks.
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  10. #10

    Thumbs up

    I support the effort one hundred percent. Snaring bears has been going on, long before guns came to Alaska. It is one of the few remaining Traditional Use's of taking bears. For us to return to the methods gone by, is the way to go. I am sure it will pan out just well and be expanded to the rest of the state quickly, as we learn the benefits of it. All the naysayers that don't want to explore the opportunities are imo blowing it all out of porportion and the only black eye we as trappers are going to get out it, will be those that are self inflicted.

    This has nothing to to with hunting. Snaring is trapping.
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  11. #11

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    So, it appears that there are too many bears in the Fort Yukon area. Well, it seems that the folks there need to do what their elders did and manage their own predators. In the past, the native folks had no problem killing denning bears and digging up wolf dens.


    Brian, that was a lot of pontificating. BS for short.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusko View Post
    Brian, that was a lot of pontificating. BS for short.

    you're right. the sfw-driven short-sighted arguments can be summed up in two letters.

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    I saw a black bear in a snare in northern Ontario. That was the most pissed off bear I have ever seen, roaring and tearing everything down but the large diameter tree it was attached to. A good trapper can make his snare somewhat selective by placing it up higher than a cub could get his neck through.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Clarification

    The type of snaring proposed would only be foot-snaring, and likely just with bucket-type sets off the ground.

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    Member fish2live's Avatar
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    Foot snaring? Really? Maybe I am in the minority but I think the bears deserve a little more respect than snaring their foot and making them suffer until the "trapper" comes along 1, 2 or who knows how many days later to end its suffering. I respect the animal too much to do that. Its silly. Traditional? So is hunting with a spear and a rock. Lets treat this animal with the respect it deserves.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    The most horrific bear story I've ever heard was committed by a sow whose cub was caught in a snare. This particular incident occurred at the remnants of a bait pile for furbearers that was not removed at the end of season.

    The sow was distraught and pounced on the first human down the trail- in this case an armed hiker but it could have been anyone. The set was placed just a few hundred yards from the road (typical of a snowmachineless trappers here BTW) and is frequented by all kinds of folks.

    An unarmed person would have been in real trouble.

    The regs require 24 hour checks and there is some talk of registering snare sites but how many unmarked bait stations have I found?

    If we want to reduce bears there are much better ways to go about it...a rifle comes to mind.

  17. #17

    Default Problems

    I actually have no problems with the snaring part if it is in a control area and the program is controlled. I would NOT like to see it out of control areas AND out of control! I would much rather shoot bears myself.

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    From the ADF&G Bear Predation Management Policy (thanks for the link bushrat)

    1. Where bear reductions are authorized, the first step should be to reduce bear numbers through general hunting provisions such as liberalized seasons, bag limits, hunting methods and means and tag waivers.


    Seems like the BOG is jumping right down to principle 5,

    "if liberalization of general hunting provisions does not adequately reduce the target bear population, an additional control program may be authorized......may utilize methods and means not approved for general hunting"


    hold your comments about liberals....shouldn't we still be trying step 1 here or is there some history i don't know about?

  19. #19

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    Some of the negative comments about trapping needs to be put to an end unless there is honest to God proof that the bait pile had open snares around it after the season.

    Also, I'm pretty sure a foot snared bear is NOT suffering. It will be similar to a foothold.

    I'm sure there will be a mandatory check time, the trappers will be hand chosen.

  20. #20
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusko View Post
    Some of the negative comments about trapping needs to be put to an end unless there is honest to God proof that the bait pile had open snares around it after the season..
    Kusko-
    My post was not a negative comment about trapping (far from it). I occasionally trap and accompany friends who trap every year.

    Fact of life is some trappers don't remove sets as they should for a variety of reasons.

    The DLP shoot I described was reported widely in the paper and in the community, I'll look for the archive copy.

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