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Thread: Model 70 problem

  1. #1
    Member Knute78's Avatar
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    Default Model 70 problem

    I have a Win. Pre-64 Model 70, in .270. This rifle was my fathers, and he shot several moose and deer, and a blck bear with this rifle. He passed away 8 years ago, and I now have the gun. Was planning on bringing it to AK this fall on my hunt. The last several years my dad was alive, he had accuracy problems with this rifle. He kept blaming it on bad scopes. Yesterday, my son and I were target shooting with it and our other rifles. The Mod. 70 was throwing them everywhere. Could not get close to even an 8 inch group! I had a new scope on the gun, swapped out scope from my 30.06, that was right on, and the same thing, no accuracy at all.
    Trying to figure this out. My father had a gunsmith drill port holes in the end of the barrel about 20 years ago. I think this is when the gun started spraying the shots, and not grouping. Any thoughts on this. I really wanted to bring this gun with me on my hunt this fall, but its not much good if throws them out like this. I don't claim to be the best shot, but with my sporterized 03A3 30.06, I can group the size of a half dollar at 150 yards. Thanks. Knute

  2. #2
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    Default

    Scope, mounts, and on a rifle this old, the bedding!

    Add the fact the rifling is most likely messed up near the crown and you have many places to look. Crown could be bad as well. Many rounds down the rifle? Maybe the throat is washed out as well.

    Sorry, you are going to have to attack this one thing at a time.

    If it were mine first thing I would do is to check the scope mounts, then glass bed it and repair any stock cracks. If that didnt help I would have the barrel cut and recrowned.
    Tennessee

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    Member Knute78's Avatar
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    Snowwolfe,
    Thanks for the reply. I have checked the mounts, and they are very solid. I think I can also eliminate the scope as the problem, as I swapped the scope from my 03A3 that was shooting accurately, and had no luck with it on the Mod. 70. I have wondered about the bedding. No, it hasn't been glass bedded, but it feels very tight. Although an older rifle, I don't think it has been shot all that much. My father wasn't one to do a lot of target practice. He would shoot a couple of rounds to make sure it was on, and then go hunting. He had the gun ported, thinking it would lower the noise level of the report. I don't think it did. This gun is in 95% or better condition, except for the porting. I suppose I need to find a quality gunsmith with a bore scope to determine if there is damage to the rifling Thanks. Knute

  4. #4

    Default RE: Accuracy Problem with Model 70

    Hi Knute--I think you probably nailed it when you mentioned that the accuracy problems started with the porting work. It is quite possible that the gunsmith damaged the rifling in the process of drilling the holes, or left significant drilling burrs in the bore. Either way, it certainly could mess up the accuracy. A borescope would reveal any problems like that. You might even be able to see it by putting a bore light in the chamber and looking into the muzzle through a good magnifying glass. Pay real close attention to the rifling right at the crown, as another member mentioned. Scattering shots that badly generally indicates crown damage.

    Since the barrel has been modified anyway, you could have a gunsmith cut it off just behind the porting, and then re-crown it. I wouldn't do that until I was certain that the porting or the crown was the problem, though.

    It is also possible that the stock's barrel channel has warped with age and is putting sideways pressure on the barrel. One thing you could do to check that is find a buddy with another model 70, swap the stocks, and try a few shots. A synthetic stock would be the best comparison. You could just buy one and plan on using it on your Alaska hunt, since it can be such wet conditions when hunting here. It would still be useful, even if you eventually decided to have the rifle re-barreled.

    The rifle has been modified enough already to reduce its "collector" value. Since it is an heirloom, I wouldn't be too concerned about taking whatever steps are needed to get its accuracy back.

    Another possibility, although far less likely considering 8"+ groups, is that the rifle just doens't like the load you are using to test it. It couldn't hurt to try a different bullet manufacturer and/or bullet weight to see if it makes a significant difference.

    Good Luck on your Alaska hunt!

    Best Regards,
    Jim

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    Member Knute78's Avatar
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    Thanks, Jim, for the insight. I don't profess to be much of an expert on the intracacies of rifle engineering. I usually load, sight in, and then go shoot my deer. I do know enough to know that something is drasticly wrong with the gun. I did think about the load, but I'm shooting the same loads that have most generaly been shot from this rifle, factory Rem. 130 gr. coreloks. I don't really care about the market or trade value of the gun, because as you said, it has sentimental value, and I won't get rid of it. I would however like to fix the problem and have a good useable firearm. What good is a gun if you can't shoot it? I have been in touch with a friend in Springfield, MO, that buys and collects a lot of guns, although most are shotguns, and he is going to talk with a gunsmith that he deals with for some more dirrection on this matter. I am located in Kansas, so if anyone knows of a knowledgeable gunsmith in the midwest, please let me know. Knute

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    I agree with the analysis about the "porting". Old model 70s also have a habit of splitting behind the recoil lug and it is caused by a loose screw. At times, with recoil, the screw will start to split that wood immediately behind the lug. It may feel tight but in fact is compressing under recoil. Looking at it very carefully and ensuring the screw is not contacting the wood is your best clue. Glassbedding and relieveing the screw contact is the solution if that is the problem. But might expect to cut the barrel off and get rid of the "porting". Best of luck. J.

  7. #7
    Member Darreld Walton's Avatar
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    Default What vintage?

    If/when you have the barreled action out of the stock, there should be a two digit year stamp on the bottom of the chamber.
    I have a 'finish challenged', but otherwise perfect .30-06 barrel that was manufactured in 1949 that I picked up from an old timer in Anaconda, Montana several years back. I can't bring myself to cobble this thing up to put on something else.........
    If you loosen your action and barrel screw, then insert something like, oh, say a dollar bill, and slide it down the barrel channel, you'll feel any tight spots. As mentioned by OldRgr, the wood will compress over the years, and lets the action 'walk' around in the wood.
    You can try a couple of things before doing anything major...
    Try putting a shim under the REAR tang of the action. What this does is put pressure on the forend again, it's a 'trick' that Springfield Armory, and unit armorers used to do to make 03's and A3's start shooting again when a stock would warp. You can do something similar by putting that piece of card stock in the forend tip.
    Take plenty of ammunition that shoots well in your '03 along with plenty of tools to 'adjust' your M70 stock while you're at the range, and see what you can do...in the end, I'd just about put money on burrs in the bore that damage the bullets as they pass over those spots that were drilled.

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Have the barrel cut and re crowned pass the holes. The .270 may have kicked more than your dad liked and he may have thought that would help the recoil. Cutting and crowning should be fairly cheap to have down by a good gun smith. Cut to 22", if it's a latter M-70 the front sight hood Can not be reused as it will be the wrong height for the taper.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    As others have already mentioned, the holes in your barrel are probably the culprit. The crown has been "compromised". Cut and crown professionally. Unlikely that a bedding problem would cause a M-70 to go to 8" groups.
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Member Knute78's Avatar
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    Well, I found a quality gunsmith in Salina, KS. He said the problem was undoubtebly the porting. I had him cut and recrown the barrel, and also glass bed it. Took it out yesterday and was able to group 4 shots at 100 yards, silver dollar size! Thats pretty good for me. I think the problem is fixed. Thanks to all for your sugestions. Now, lets go hunting. Knute

  11. #11
    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    About thirty years ago I had one that would shoot nothing but weather reports. I ended up rebarreling that rifle and it made all the difference in the world.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    Member broncoformudv's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Knute78 View Post
    Well, I found a quality gunsmith in Salina, KS. He said the problem was undoubtebly the porting. I had him cut and recrown the barrel, and also glass bed it. Took it out yesterday and was able to group 4 shots at 100 yards, silver dollar size! Thats pretty good for me. I think the problem is fixed. Thanks to all for your sugestions. Now, lets go hunting. Knute

    Its good to hear you got her shooting again good luck on your hunt!

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