The ruger vs BB was getting way out of hand. Good job.
Looking back through all the BB threads a couple folks rag the outfit fairly hard here. I hear none of these problems on the Ruger or Greybeard forum and most recommend them as good ammo
My first thread lock down in 4 years, wow, I really do have mod power
Lets get back to the important stuff like... What's the best handgun for bear protection, 44mag vs 45 Colt, SA vs DA, Kimber vs all the rest, why FA are the best, Ruger vs S&W, overpriced Colts, What would Keith do, a 500 what?? and what's the biggest critter you've shot with the smallest handgun...
But seriously. We have a pretty good bunch of guys here. I for one have sure learned a lot and I just didn't want to see things get REAL bad. Many guys who posted in that thread are great contributors here in the Handgun and other forums and I'd hate to loose any of them over one situation.
Anyway, I reamed my first ever cylinder throats the other night so now it's time to go see how the BizHunter shoots! Maybe this weekend.
I just checked my throats on my 41 Blackhawk tonight. All 6 are sitting right on 410. Not sure why I checked because it's always shot better than I can see. A guy on castboolits gave me about 300 269gr .410s that he made from 40S&W cases using different loading dies instead of swaging dies. He makes the jacket first then pours it full of melted lead. They look like real bear busters and I should be able to get them to 1300+. Can't wait to try them. Good shooting. Buck
Could you post some pictures of these bullets. This sounds like a neat idea and I sure would be interested to hear and see more about it.
Originally Posted by rbuck351
I think you guys have a great site. Sorry I was not posting here long ago and too bad I got here the way I did, oh well.
I wonder if you could do me/everyone a future favor. Would you moderators be willing to consider shutting down ANY thread from ANY one that badmouths or seeks to harm the reputation of any one? Only next time, shut it down immediately?
Never in my life have I seen that kind of uncalled for defamation and not only does it hurt businesses and individuals, but I think it hurts this site too.
I won't be able to post pictures until my wife gets home and shows me how but I'll try to describe the process for making them. Starting with 40S&Wcases.
2.notch case top or not. using a piece of 7/8x14 thread rod drill hole part way through length with dia to fit case champher tool. with champher tool in thread rod with pointed end up in press, push case into champher tool enough to notch case a little. doesn't take much
3.fully anneal cases
4.lube and run through Lee .410 boolit sizer die.
5. using a bottle neck rifle sizing die with decapper out( 308, 243 or similar) and the Lee sizer push rod, push case into die far enough to get the TC type shoulder on the case with about a .300 opening in the front and knock out with punch through decapper hole
6.clean with muratic acid( From hardware store)
7.wash cases in water and baking soda twice and rinse thuroughly
You need to make a flat plug for the press from 7/8x14 thread rod to fit in place of die and buy from lyman a blank shell holder or make one
8.Turn your lee pot to max with pure lead or for less expansion use ww and set as many cases around lip of pot as will fit to pre heat.
9. put blank shell holder and flat bottom 7/8x14 plug in press.
10. holding with pliers, slightly overfill one of the pre heated cases with lead and set on shell holder.
11.giving 3to5 seconds for lead to shrink but still be pliable, push bullet against flat plug to pinch off excess lead. Takes a little practice to get timing right.
12.set aside to cool
14. moly coat or not
15.push through 410 sizer again.
16. sort by weight and load and shoot. If you sorted cases by brand when starting, weights should be pretty close.
This is not exactly as described to me but works. His description can be found on cast bo olits in the swaging forum a couple of pages down under Hybrid bullets with pictures
Here is a picture of the 269gr .410s Hope this comes out as I'm not real computer literate.
Last edited by Snyd; 02-25-2010 at 22:27.
Reason: Tried to fix the pic link
I fixed the link for your pic.
Thanks, I guess I'm going to have to learn computers better.
I'll bite - You're right, it is a great site. One that allows completely un-biased reviews and opinions of products related to all outdoors products. Including yours. I for one feel I have enough evidence to avoid BB ammo for safety reasons.
Originally Posted by Tim Sundles
My reasons are not related to personal experience. [Edited by moderator.]
I'm sorry Tim, but once I've been given sufficent evidence that a manufacturer's product is unsafe, I will not bend.
[Edited by moderator.]
Last edited by Murphy; 02-26-2010 at 16:35.
Reason: Negative comments about business.
The other 299,300,000 people can have it.
Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom, than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist.
Good time to plan for next time...
Good point- an opportunity to plan. In general terms, and whether it's Mr. Sundles' plan or another one, now seems a good time for corporate AOD () to map tactics for the next time.
Originally Posted by Tim Sundles
His point about the effect on-balance on these forums may be right on too. Taken as a campfire discussion, I think most guys don't mind a heated discussion around the fire, but if there isn't some foundation of respect, and a willingness to exercise a little restraint at times, it gets to be no-win quickly. In camp, people start drifting away from the fire. Next day, no one wants to hunt/fish together and on a trip at some point we might need each other. Maybe that's too big a leap here, to project to future threads and make any kind of implication about remembering that we as outdoorsmen sort of need to work together too, but ... our actions define us too, individually and sometimes...collectively.
Another thread is building up steam already. Mr. Sundles is doing his best to stamp out fires there, but ... might soon be too many sparks for one man to handle - not because he isn't willing and not because the facts support any verdict - but just from guys piling on.
Agree with the thumbs ups to Snyd though. Quite a few good responses in that (R v BB) thread and I was impressed with the fairness, restraint and knowledge demonstrated by many forum members too. But diminishing returns for all there and the smoke was getting thick.
Unless, of course, the product is a local product. If BB had a different zip code attached to their address, these conversations wouldn't be happening.
Originally Posted by AKsoldier
Think about it......
I had mixed feelings about the thread from the beginning. I almost nuked it after the first post since there was not much info. I figured I'd see if more info came up. Well, it went the way it did. I guess I see a difference between pointing out a possible flaw or problem with a product, as opposed to an outright slandering attack against a business or person. This then leads in to the whole area of making a judgement call.
This site has tons of product reviews with people saying both good and bad things about them. If someone has a problem with a product and posts about it and the product manufacturer wants to post and try to deal with the issue then great. When it gets to a tit for tat, vague facts, hearsay, personal bashing, etc. then I guess it crosses a line. When the line gets crossed is up for interpretation. Some may feel the first post crossed the line. Others may feel the thread should still be open.
After I decided to lock the thread I thought about nuking it as well. But I asked the opinion of another mod and he thinks it would be good to leave it since there seem to be folks who have questions about BB ammo and this issue in general. But, I think he/we will/are going to go through and "zap the crap" so to speak and leave the "meat" of the thread.
I have no dog in this fight. I've never been to WWG and I load my own ammo. I don't own the site or get paid for moderating. I'm just another member like the rest of you. I just decided to make a judgement call. Now you know where I'm coming from, as best as I can explain with a keyboard anyway.
Snyd, thank you for the response. I'm glad you took the time to explain why you locked down the other thread, and I don't disagree with your decision at all. The fact that you've only locked down one thread in four years, tells me much about your moderating style, and I appreciate it very much.
Well I don’t think a 99### or a 00### zip makes an ounce of difference. I suspect any business that asks the administration to have some statement about them removed they will e obliged. If I owned the forum and was asked to have some unsupported negative statement about them removed I would sure zap it. I think who you speak of is the only one to ask is all. I also think it speaks volumes about Mr. Sundles that he has not asked that, only that the record be fair and the pointless banter stop.
Originally Posted by Dan in Alaska
Snyd, it was a good call as it was quite evident no new info would be coming.
Dan in Alaska- I can only speak for myself; but a business or members location doesn't matter to me. In fact, if you can believe it, I was surprised find out BB was NOT an Alaskan company. For some reason I figured they were but really never paid much attention to it. That is until all this came about. But, even as a write this I cannot tell you what state they are in, honestly. For all I know they could be in Canada or Mexico!
And ya, I figure you guys are all big boys and should be able to get along. I like nuking the spammers and learning stuff from all the members here. But, I'm not a mod in the General forums and I've learned to stay out of there. Back in the days of heavy political and religious discussion I'd been known to get myself in a little trouble. I spend most of my time in the shooting, hunting and gear forums and mod in the Gear, Survival and Handgun forums. Not too much for guys to argue about here. Well, except for maybe which is better.... the .429... whoops I mean... 44mag or 45 Colt
Agree, it was time Snyd.
I hadn't been on this forum lately and just read that long R/BB string. I'm sure it was a tough decision letting it go on, but despite all the pleasantries shared, some of the factual contributions were educational......which is part of why I come here.
+1 for you!