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Thread: I done screwed up...

  1. #1
    Member Colby Jack's Avatar
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    Default I done screwed up...

    I made the mistake of going hunting with 3 guys that were riding Tundras. One guy was on an old school toboggan, one was on an 07 or 08, and the other was on a 2010. I was on my boy's 380 mxz.
    The biggest thing I noticed was the 2010 could go anywhere he wanted at idle! I had to wait for him to climb the entire hill in front of me so I could punch it to the top.
    I want to be able to take my two boys hunting with me, meaning I want another sled soon. I'm leaning toward the tundra LT. The problem I am seeing is that it isn't 2-up. I love the 154" track and the articulating track for reverse. The cost for upgrading to 2up is $900.

    My question for all is- is it better to buy a sled built to the hilt? If I want to ride 2-up should I not even consider the short track? If I want to use it for fun and work, should I lean away from a utility sled? Brother has a new Bearcat and swears by it! Seems like a tank to me.

    All opinions are welcome!

  2. #2
    Member Dirtofak's Avatar
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    Assuming that you do not have to haul in a complete cabin kit 20 miles or more and that you won't be the next highmark king the Tundra should be fine. I have a 2007 300F and a 2008 550F LT. Snow condidtions determine which performs better. The LT is (IMO) the all around better machine of you like to play as it has the power and traction for deep powder and fairly steep inclines. DooTalk has some onfo on the 2010 550F engine that you should read up on.

    If you are not hauling alot of freight, you may look at a Summit 600 ETEC and even possibly gear it down. I know a guy that hauls a lot of freight with an 800 Summit.

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    Look for a leftover 2008 Bearcat 570 fan-cooled. You can get one for $7500.00. It's loaded, has a 14 gallon gas tank, 1"x156"x16" track, and is a wonderfully comfortable and lightweight machine. Only upgrade would be a torsion bar. Anchorage Suzuki Arctic Cat can set you up. Several AC stealerships around the state, you should be able to find one.

    I like being able to sit down on the machine like riding a Harley, but it is open enough you can easily stand up if you want.
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    Member byrd_hntr's Avatar
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    Default 600 ace wt

    The new WT come with a 2 up standard. They come in the 600 ACE 4 stroke that sounds interesting and the 550 Fan. dirt is right this years 550 Fan has had some troubles but from what I can gleam there is a fix and some folks are really happy with them. Dootalk.com is full of info check it out.
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  5. #5
    Member Colby Jack's Avatar
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    Default Keep it coming!

    Thanks for the input guys! Dootalk sounds like a great place for me to start. Does mpg play a big part in your decision making matrix??? Should I not worry about it and just buy one of these fancy shmancy flat-jug systems?

    That bear cat felt like a pig. Just couldn't imagine it being a fun sled to ride. I'm 170lbs sopping wet in full riding gear. Just seems a little more weight than I could handle for a full day. I'll get a chance to ride one next weekend.

    Is it a big deal to re-gear a sled? Is it just changing the point at which the clutch engages? Does that adversely affect the top speed? Not that it matters... I have no intention of breaking the sound barrier.

    Thanks in advance.

    Colby Jack

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    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
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    You weren't up boulder creek were ya?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby Jack View Post
    Thanks for the input guys! Dootalk sounds like a great place for me to start. Does mpg play a big part in your decision making matrix??? Should I not worry about it and just buy one of these fancy shmancy flat-jug systems?

    That bear cat felt like a pig. Just couldn't imagine it being a fun sled to ride. I'm 170lbs sopping wet in full riding gear. Just seems a little more weight than I could handle for a full day. I'll get a chance to ride one next weekend.

    Is it a big deal to re-gear a sled? Is it just changing the point at which the clutch engages? Does that adversely affect the top speed? Not that it matters... I have no intention of breaking the sound barrier.

    Thanks in advance.

    Colby Jack
    When me and the wife wanted to buy a sled back in '93, I began by observing what people had, in terms of brands. This aspect was easy, because I owned a taxi at that time and was in the car 14 hours per day. I saw almost no AC's, few Polaris's, and many Ski-Doo's. And of the Doo's that I saw, many were on the side of the road dead.

    I then went into the stealerships and looked at the machines. Polaris's engine compartments were huge open things; you cpould almost get in and walk around. Doo's were cramped by comparison. Since there wasn't an AC in town, I didn't bother. but Pol's looked better engineered to me, and as the years have gone by, they don't make the changes Doo does year-to-year, so the sleds seemed to hold up better. I have always owned Pol until two years ago, I bought the 2007 Bearcat.

    This is NOT the new ones. I agree, I was disappointed AC has become infected with the huge fever, and sitting on one is like taking a park bench for a ride. My wife is 4'11" and she likes this one. A neighbor borrowed ours for a couple days (his little snogo was stolen), and his wife begged him to get an AC.
    When I began looking for a new sled (this was 2 years ago), I wanted:
    Fan-cooled
    Longtrack
    And go from there. Yammie didn't have anything but the little 250cc leaf-spring fornt suspension, so it was out. Pol no longer had a fan-cooled longtrack so they were out. I went into Anchorage and looked very hard a Doo's, since the Doo and AC were equal in my mind, the only difference being front suspension. I was almost sold on the Skandic SUV with the 550 fan. I liked the 1.25"x 20" x 156" track and Pol type independent armed front suspension, it had the overall travel I wanted for a smooth ride out here on the tundra, but it weighed 605 pounds DRY, and the tunnel was quite wide due to the 20" track.
    The AC had everything, plus more suspension travel (9.5 front instead of 7.5), and weighs 550 pounds, a full 50 pounds less than the Doo, and lastly the AC was $2,000.00 less than the Doo. It was this and the seat that was the dealbreaker. I wanted the wider track of the Doo, but not for $2 large.
    When you sit down into the AC, you are super comfortable because the seat cups your butt, the big windshield covers you and it handles like a much lighter machine. I question the 560 pound weight in the specs. I have had three ( a 700, and two 800), big inch triple triple Polaris' and they are challenging for me to tip on their sides, but the AC comes over very easy.

    So there was my decision process, yours may differ, but try out the 2005-2008 Bearcat Fan-cooled. These years are identical except for the paint, parts are very easy to find, easy to work on, and comfortable. NOT like the new ones. I know you can still get a 2008, and even a gently used one would be a very excellent choice. Oh, you can also place a 15-gallon fuel jug into the back of the AC perfectly with the rack, engage the overload springs (didn't know about those did you?), and go out on an expedition with the wife and gear in the sled.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    I had the 2007 bear cat 570 fan and it was a great sled I hauled allot of freight to my cabin with it. If you just want to go have fun it dose real well it has a great suspension.
    I have a 2010 now and i like it they made a few good changes on the 2010 like the push button reverse. and a 20 inch track. The other thing i like about it is the stand up seating my knees don't bother me anymore.
    It is about 15 miles per hour slower. My 2007 would do 75 to 80 without a problem. The new one about 60 to 65.
    I haven't got it to stuck yet when i do it wont be fun thats probably why they have a place for a wench on the front.
    I would say if you want to have something to have allot of fun. and still be able to pull a fairly good load the 2006 to 08 would be my choice.
    I mostly go from the landing to my cabin up by lake creek with a load. I am into more comfort the new one is like a deVille. I did do a little trapping with it and with the 20 inch track i could break trails threw the woods where i wouldn't dare take the 2007.
    One thing i would do is stud the track. I rode both non studded and studded and studded is the only way to go.....

  9. #9
    Member Colby Jack's Avatar
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    Default Now that's a reply!!!

    Thanks Nitro! I have really enjoyed most of your input on this forum. A general lack of BS coupled with a little brand loyalty-- I dig it. I was unaware of the over load springs. Did you end up with the XT model Bearcat? One thing is for sure-- the bumpers front and rear on the AC lay the smack down on the skidoo for sure. The Bearcat does give me the feeling it will last for years to come. That goes a long way when selling the idea to the wifey!

    @ Hunt_AK-- not sure where Boulder Creek is. I was hunting with friends up nest to Matanuska Glacier, right past Victory Bible Camp. My buddy called it Hicksville or something like that.

  10. #10
    Member Colby Jack's Avatar
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    Default Hey Thunder

    Thanks for the input, Lance. How much did it cost to stud your track? Did you do the labor yourself? my brother had a great experience buying his sled out in Biglake. Is that where you have gotten yours? I am usually a big believer in buying big items brand new just for the knowledge of the vehicles history. Would you buy a used machine? An '08 sounds like a great machine. I do like the push button reverse.

  11. #11
    Member byrd_hntr's Avatar
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    Default 570 xt

    I looked the 570 XT really hard last year and I almost pulled the trigger. Its one heck of a beast of a machine. What finally scared me away was the weight. I ride alone most of the time and if you really bury it... well there's a reason they put a winch on the front end. Theres a reason they don't post the weight on the AC website. If my memory serves me it weights somewhere in the ballpark of 700 lbs. But on the other hand it has a lot of the features I like, I just couldn't stomach the weight. I went with a doo Tundra LT for that reason. However my next sled with be a 4 stroke if they get the weight under control.
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    Supporting Member AlaskanSD's Avatar
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    Don't worry about 2-up seating. If it's a money issue, buy OLD tundra's from the '90s - they're bulletproof. Once a boy is 10+, he can handle his own sled all day long just fine, especially one the size of a tundra. It's miserable for both the rider and the passenger to ride 2-up!

    My favorite all time Tundra were the Tundra R models from 1998 to 2002ish. Old body style, low center of gravity, decent suspension, light (370 lbs) and reverse! The new ones work fine, I just think the RF chassis looks like an ugly bumblebee.

    Bearcats are fine for hauling, but NOT good for putting around at 5mph on bushes covered in powder.

  13. #13
    Member Colby Jack's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Great minds...

    Just got off the phone with my buddy and he said the same thing-- buy an older sled for the boys. Now that leads me to another point: nobody has talked about the "new" tundra front suspension. That to me has been the biggest selling point-- oh and I just stopped at AMDS and found out that 2011 tundra extreme is all black and has a 550 e-tec. *******s. Price, you ask??? 11K! Ouch.

    There is a good deal on a 2009 tundra, but it has the older front suspension. Anyone want to jump in and defend that design?

    And my other question earlier: how hard (read: expensive) is it to regear a sled? Does lowering the rpm at which the track engages adversely affect the top speed?

    Thank you guys!

    Colby

  14. #14
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Tundra 550F

    I have a 2008 Scandic Tundra 550F and I love it.
    The front suspension is really good. I believe this is the same as what is on some of their higher end sleds. I think you would be extremly pleased with it.
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    As of the first year I owned my sled, I have wondered very hard why the engineers at AC didn't stick a 1.25" track on the Bearcat. This 1" tall track will spin easily, as the 570cc motor make roughly 50 hp and it is geared plenty low.
    The 2009 Bearcats will have 1.25" tracks 'cause Camoplast couldn't keep up with the demand for 1" (they supply Pol too), so if you go for a 2009, check the lug height. If it is 1", tell them to change it out for a 1.25".
    I am VERY seriously thinking of having a pair of rail extensions custom made, and then installing a 174" Camoplast Challenger after I cut the 3" tall paddles down to 1.35" or so. I think this would allow me enough lug height plus leave room for studs. Then I'd have a machine that would go places. Though mine does pretty well as-is.
    Whichever sled you choose, have tunnel protectors installed as part of the deal, make sure they are aluminum and not just a pair of plastic sliders. THEN you'll be fine to stud the track. Put in two studs per flat, install 6-8" carbides on the skis, and you'll be good to go. Don't bother with re-gearing, these sleds are all geared low enough. But if you want too, considering the reverse gears in the chaincase, it would be best to discuss this with the service manager at the stealership you buy your sled from. Should cost you about $200.00 as long as you check to make sure the gears you use do not require a new chain. If you need a new chain, add $75 to the bill.
    I have put 4700 miles on my 2007, had an upper chaincase bearing shatter at 22 miles, under warranty so didn't cost anything, but I still had to walk back to town. And I also had a speedo key freeze, break and need replacement. This is all I have done to the machine.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    I recently bought a 2010 Tundra LT. This is the first machine that I have owned for some time so I may not be as knowledgeable as most on here. You are right it really goes in deep snow real well. It rides like a Cadilac but seems really tippy to me. Maybe I need to set up the suspension a little which will probably make it ride a little rougher. It really floats over rough terrain the way it is.

    One point was made about cramped under the 3 part hood. It is very cramped to get to the spark plugs to change them out.

    I like the new pogo stick front end. My friend was riding a 2009 and he had to stop and pull brush out of his machine several times last weekend. We pulled loads in to a friend's cabin. One load had 1,700 pounds of lumber on a big sled being pulled by a Polaris and the other was the Tundra which had a Honda 4 wheeler on the sled. It handled the Honda like it wasn't even back there.

    I'm no spring chicken anymore but that 550 Tundra with the 1.5 inch lugged track has all the power I could ever want for myself. It will raise the skis off the ground for some distance when you punch it down. Good enough for me.

    The hand warmers and thumb warmers were real nice last week as it was below zero and it was a 48 mile ride each way. I also like the electric start and reverse which is an upgrade from my old machines of yesteryear.

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    I have the 2009 AC Bearcat 570 XT and will pretty much echo the sentiments of the other folks. It's heavy but rarely gets stuck even in Valdez powder. However, when it does get stuck, especially when both of us are riding, it's a "bear" to get out. If you have 3 or 4 guys, you can usually just pick up the back end get it out of the hole. If you don't...you might be diggin a while. The other problem with it is in deep powder if it start tipping, you might as well just jump because unless you can power out of the tip it's gonna go over.

    This is my first sled so some of the problems i've had are because of my newbieness, but this thing is freaking heavy and usually gets comments from my sledding friends like "Man that is a huge sled" when it's sitting next to their singles.

    Good luck with your search.
    Ed

  18. #18
    Member Colby Jack's Avatar
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    Default Trigger pulled!

    After much deliberation, and a little heart-ache, I am about to purchase a 2004 Skandic LT tomorrow. Thanks for all of your input and advice! I'm hoping that this rig is everything I am wanting in a utility sled. Low miles, long track, gun scabbord, left hand throttle, hot dogger, fan cooled... yeah, that should do me for a couple weeks! lol

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    Right on! Thanks for the update and have fun!

  20. #20

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    So......If I am reading this correct for about $50,000.00 CASH I could have five machines, and one should work for that days riding requirements.......

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