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Thread: force fetch / table and pictures

  1. #1

    Post force fetch / table and pictures

    check out Banks on the table my buddy and I built this past weekend. I plan to use it for force fetching Banks once that time comes but for now its just another toy for Banks to play on / get comfortable with. Keep in mind it's usually in the garage mean while the old lady's car is parked out front. I keep telling her we're just making sure her auto start works.... They say pick your battles wisely so we'll see how long this one lasts..haha




    Just curious for the folks who have put dogs through the force fetch process do you perfer to use a table then progess to the ground or do you skip the table and just start on the ground? Thanks in advance for any input shared.

    Richie

  2. #2
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    I've force fetched maybe 25 retrievers over 20 years. I've never used a table yet. Maybe if I did a lot of dogs I'd make one.

  3. #3

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    I've never used one. I typically just sit on a bucket with the dog between my legs or sitting beside me. Your obedience needs to be solid before FF. I don't like battling dogs on obedience issues while trying to go through FF.

  4. #4

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    One thing to keep in mind. There is a transition period for the dog when you go from the table to the ground. They do well on the table but for some it seems they have to relearn it on the ground.
    Dogs thought process "......I don't have to do this...this isn't the table...this isn't where I do this. You mean I have to do this here to"

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    Member Burke's Avatar
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    I have used a table for three different dogs. I think it works great.

    Do you have to use it, no but it does eliminate bending over all the time.
    I set mine up in a barn with the wire runner over the top and had enough materials to go 16 feet so I could start sending as well. I could use it at any time during the year; warmer in the winter and cooler for the hot Montana summer.

    Disclaimer... all my dogs were fine retrievers before I did the FR process.

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    IMO a table is a great tool for many aspects of training, force fetch being one of them. One of the aspects of FF that isn't talked about much but to me is a big plus is the psychology of FF. When FF is done correctly the dog, often for the first time, finally must accept the trainer as the one in charge, the alpha dog as it were. In my experience many dog owners and their dogs have a never ending battle in this area. Especially for those great dogs that have a lot of drive and a strong will.

    The FF process has numerous steps that need to be completed in sequence for best results. This is where many trainers with one or two dogs rush the process and never really get a FF dog. Also, a lot of confusion can arise between the dog and a trainer who is not familiar with the process.

    In my experience, the best step by step explanation is contained in the NAVHDA publication "Training and Care of The Versatile Hunting Dog".

    There are a lot of variations, all of them work if the trainer knows the process and commits to see it through. As someone mentioned in a previous post, dogs are very place-oriented in training, so what ever is trained on the table needs to be repeated next to the table, then in the yard, then in different locations in the field.

  7. #7

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    this will be my first attempt at force fetching a dog and I understand the concept of not throwing any bumpers during this stage of the game. I've seen some videos that promote this as well as continuing to work on obedience and collar condition during this process as well. I guess I should clarify..."by continuing to work on"...I mean the dog knows the obedience commands and this would be a form of polishing those commands. So I'm gonna poll the audience on this one and see what I get.

    -who agrees to only conduct force fetch and thats it

    or

    -who agrees to conduct force fetch and continue to work on obedience/collar conditioning on the side.

  8. #8
    Member Burke's Avatar
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    The bench has multiple uses....it can also be used for whoa work and grooming...easy to trim nails when at your level.....

    I used the Tritronics video with Dobbs the first time I did it. It was useful and added the elements of bringing the e collar into FR.
    Last edited by Burke; 03-01-2010 at 09:01. Reason: add

  9. #9

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    I wouldn't have a problem working both. No brainer of course...but not at the same time.
    Just a thought.....once obedience has been taught it is always refined and expected through out the dogs life. It's not just a drill.

  10. #10

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    good deal. I've bought several dvds but I just can't buy into each program. I'm in the process of making my hybrid version by mixing all the dvds together. I recently purchased the Evan Graham dvd on force fetch so I'm hoping this will shine some light and complete the package.

    WR: I'm glad to hear your opinion on conducting both force fetch and collar conditioning at the same time.

    Shifting gears: I know you can't put a timeline or apply a formula to dog training because it just isn't that easy but if you were to give your best guess on how long it would it takes to collar condition a dog who understands the commands how long would you say? After four sessions with Banks I'm really starting to see some improvement.

  11. #11

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    CC in the way that I do it can be accomplished in 2 to 3 sessions.
    After that formal field work can begin. Everytime a dog comes off my truck it is wearing a ecollar. They become accustomed to it and are excited to see it because they enjoy the field work that is about to occur. ALWAYS make sure your corrections are fair and at the right level for each particular dog. Each dog has its own sensitivety to the collar. You can fix a lot of problems with the collar.....but you can also create a lot of problems as well if not done right. Don't turn the dial up just to make you feel better when your dogs training lesson isn't going well.

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    Here's a pic of what I do the majority of my ff work on..gets them used to working off a platform, and I can mix in marks or fun bumpers during the process. Has wheels so I can move it around easily to different locations.


  13. #13

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    Heck man. All you need is a padded back a cushion and a foot rest and you got a Lazy Boy on wheels. That's cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richie View Post
    good deal. I've bought several dvds but I just can't buy into each program. I'm in the process of making my hybrid version by mixing all the dvds together. I recently purchased the Evan Graham dvd on force fetch so I'm hoping this will shine some light and complete the package.

    WR: I'm glad to hear your opinion on conducting both force fetch and collar conditioning at the same time.

    Shifting gears: I know you can't put a timeline or apply a formula to dog training because it just isn't that easy but if you were to give your best guess on how long it would it takes to collar condition a dog who understands the commands how long would you say? After four sessions with Banks I'm really starting to see some improvement.
    Be careful of mixing and matching training methods. Make sure the dog is ready for what you do next. Sometimes dog trainer 1's step B won't prepare a dog for dog trainer 2's step C.

    While I don't think anybody can take an entire program from one trainer and apply it without some influences of another program you've read about, seen a DVD on, or what your dad or buddy did. You should stick mostly with one program. You'll have a much less confused dog that way. Especially, get the basics done following mostly one program.

  15. #15

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    Howard, good points. By making my own program I mean I'll take what I like from DVD X and get rid of the things I don't like from DVD X and the same with other dvds. I'm a full believer in applying things that pass the "sniff test" and out with the things that don't.

    example: I have the wildrose kennel dvd and I think there are a lot of good "take aways"...marking off the barrel, working on memory, different ways to steady a dog etc etc but there are also some things I don't agree with like not having the dog on a check cord or using an e-collar. He says not to use a long line because the dog is prone to stepping on it and dropping whatever the dog has in his/her mouth.

    my intent is not to be crude or anything along those lines because sometimes it's hard to express ideas and opinions when using a keyboard.

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    Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Howard, good points. By making my own program I mean I'll take what I like from DVD X and get rid of the things I don't like from DVD X and the same with other dvds. I'm a full believer in applying things that pass the "sniff test" and out with the things that don't.
    I have done the same thing pick pieces of the different trainging regiments and in the instances where they dont work you can always refer back and use different methods if need be.

    some things I don't agree with like not having the dog on a check cord or using an e-collar.
    Ditto, on this dont think I would have ever gotten as far with my pup without the check cord, and the e-collar was the only way I could keep my pup from wanting to constantly try biting the leash and check cord while I was trying to train him, he thought it was play time, one session with the e-collar and that problem went away.
    Jesse
    HR SHR JR's Gunny Dog "Ermey"
    SR JR's Marsh Mangling Mindy
    SR JR's LNR Thicket Thrashing Trixie

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    Member thelast2's Avatar
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    Heck man. All you need is a padded back a cushion and a foot rest and you got a Lazy Boy on wheels. That's cool.
    No kidding, Some tundra tires a camoflage paint job, and cup holder and I would just wheel the thing out in the swamp.
    Jesse
    HR SHR JR's Gunny Dog "Ermey"
    SR JR's Marsh Mangling Mindy
    SR JR's LNR Thicket Thrashing Trixie

  18. #18

    Default Nice Setup

    Wow that is a really nice setup! Now I'll be jealous when I go out and use my table!

    ____________________________________
    Tracy
    Wirehaired Pointing Griffons

  19. #19

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    thanks I appreciate the kind words....oh never mind you're probably talking to Getalab... haha

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