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Thread: Susitna Valley AC vote and cow moose authorization

  1. #1
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default Susitna Valley AC vote and cow moose authorization

    PUBLIC NOTICE
     
    The Susitna Valley Fish & Game Advisory Committee will hold their election meeting Friday, February 26th, at 6 pm at the Willow Community Center in Willow . Additionally on the agenda: a report on the Statewide BOG meeting, preparation of comments for the Statewide BOF proposals and the anadramous stream catalog, and prepare proposals for BOF Cook Inlet. For more information contact Steve Runyan at 495-2697.

    New Agenda item: vote to authorize cow moose hunts in the core Mat-Su Valley. As it currently stands, there will be no 2010 cow hunt, as MatSu AC voted to NOT reauthorize cow hunts, Anchorage vote yes to reauthorize, so Susitna Valley is the tie break vote.

    Public opinions are a valuable part of this process, but cannot be heard if the public stays home and is silent.

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    Thumbs down cow hunts vote no!

    i hope you guys do the right thing stop these hunts. we need these cows for the over all health of the herd.

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    rundown,

    You are in for the fight of your life, ( I see you are a new member here)

    I've been hammered for over 2 year's and am still getting hammered

    Good luck. Get your duck's in a row, because most on here will turn anything you have to say in another direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_skipper View Post

    I've been hammered for over 2 year's and am still getting hammered
    That explains a lot about your posts for the last couple of years
    ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·..¸¸ ><((((º>`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>

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    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  5. #5

    Wink

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

    I certainly don't want to stand accused of Implying Consent by remaining silent.
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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    You guy's are enough to make any man look at the bottle for answer's, he start's to think of it as the crystal ball, ( give me the **** answer's you piece of glass.)

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    Nice work, Rock. I laughed about that one!
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock_skipper View Post
    You guy's are enough to make any man look at the bottle for answer's, he start's to think of it as the crystal ball, ( give me the **** answer's you piece of glass.)
    quit bogarding and pass the dam thing already!!!!!!!!!!!
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Default To funny

    You all bust me up


    I was thinkin. If you hunt a bull moose in the valley and there is a total of 6600 moose how many "legal" moose are we (20,000 local hunters) hunting 200 maybe 300 legal bulls. If we want to actually hurt the herd we need to hunt cows! Excuse me help the herd. How else are we going to give 500 lucky individuals a shot at half the herd. Meanwhile we should also give another group unreported hunting opportunities in case any escape. Trains and automobiles will take the rest indiscreminately. Can we take any bull. I am sick and tired of the under 50 moose harrassing my dog day and night. He has barked himself hoarse telling the moose to get out of his yard

    Does anybody know what the F&G assumed Bull/cow ratio is in unit 14

    Forgive my ramblings, I have been in a minor Blizzard for 5 days maybe it will die down tomorrow get a plane in, go on R&R soon.

    Maybe drink R&R soon. Come up with some real answers
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledhands View Post
    You all bust me up


    I was thinkin. If you hunt a bull moose in the valley and there is a total of 6600 moose how many
    Don't you mean sub unit 14A? that Valley a a big place with a lot more moose then that
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member sledhands's Avatar
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    Default 14 a

    Well yeah seein as that is where the great cow controversy started.

    Vince you and bushrat seem to be better at finding this sort of info. How many moose in 14 as a whole and brokedown into the three subunits, what is the assumed bull/cow ratio for each also. What is a IM ideal bull/cow ratio goal.

    What about that girls hockey team. Heyyyy
    Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledhands View Post
    Well yeah seein as that is where the great cow controversy started.

    Vince you and bushrat seem to be better at finding this sort of info. How many moose in 14 as a whole and brokedown into the three subunits, what is the assumed bull/cow ratio for each also. What is a IM ideal bull/cow ratio goal.

    What about that girls hockey team. Heyyyy
    email away... but if i dont get the answer.. shoot for the Wednesday meeting the bio should be there and can answer those questions in full... the large dff is that the BIOS up here all attend the meetings. down there they get yelled at so often they quit attending and presenting the info... i think more $$$$ should be allocated to that fund for the aerial surveys for the valley by sub unit as they do here. though as i understand it is hard to run a grid in the populated areas and get accurate fall counts down there as the snow is often late in coming... but a stop at the rink may get a good count on that hockey team(wear a cup!)
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Glad I live on the coast so every moose we take Canada sends us a new one.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    With the switch to a winter draw for moose, we need to consider moving the AC consent votes for these hunts to late fall before the draw appication period. Having this conversation after folks have contributed many thousands of dollars and their limited choices to these hunts is not the right way to go about it.

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    Member sledhands's Avatar
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    Default Love to show

    But Work seems to feed the kids. So I put my trust in you and others to watch the herd while I am away. I will be home on the 12th back to work on the 26. Is there anything in there? Otherwise meeting needs to be in Nuiqsut at this time. No planes past five days so if they use a NUIQSUT venue they better plan for delays. Seriously though a 6-2 rotation is kind of hard to be consistant with meeting attendance.

    Think I will try to find the bio info in the F&G website. Or an e-mail for a request.
    Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory.
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    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    With the switch to a winter draw for moose, we need to consider moving the AC consent votes for these hunts to late fall before the draw appication period. Having this conversation after folks have contributed many thousands of dollars and their limited choices to these hunts is not the right way to go about it.
    I concur!

    It's silly to take money and give nothing in return.
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    Default To the Su-Valley AC

    Would certainly hope and expect your AC makes a decision based on the best available biological data, rather than any personal views on antlerless potlatch hunts.

    Remember please just whom you really represent, and what your function is as an Advisory Committee.

    Thank you,

  18. #18

    Thumbs up

    It is my sincere hope that the AC does the right thing, by recognizing the fact that they are the last ditch cog in the wheel that often spins out of control. They are the ones with boots on the ground and should not ignore what they know to be the truth. Take a jaundice, close look at those that present data. Sort out in your minds, collectively who you trust and what their agenda really is. Then vote your concience. I can only speak from my perspective and those that I speak with. I and they all want more moose to kill. We can't get there from killing off the cows. If anyone doubts this, take a look at what was done in Unit 16. They opened up the killing of cows and now it is what it is. The are doing the same up in Unit 20. STOP IT NOW> Future hunting depends on the AC's to manage the game responsibly, in spite of what the college boys with their agenda's might think or do. You have the responsibility and power to bring things back in line.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledhands View Post
    Well yeah seein as that is where the great cow controversy started.

    Vince you and bushrat seem to be better at finding this sort of info. How many moose in 14 as a whole and brokedown into the three subunits, what is the assumed bull/cow ratio for each also. What is a IM ideal bull/cow ratio goal.

    What about that girls hockey team. Heyyyy
    here is the data I got back

    Vince,

    Without getting too complicated, we have survey information for 4 GMU’s managed out of the Palmer Office – 14A, 14B, 16A, and 16B. As you know, 16B and approximately half of 16A make up the Unit 16 Predator Control Area. This includes both aerial wolf control and black bear control programs. Because of this, we conduct fairly frequent surveys of this area. Unit 16B, because of its size is broken down into three “sub-subunits” which include 16B-North, 16B-Middle, and 16B-South. All have different challenges in regards to population distribution, seasonal movement patterns, sightability, weather, and flight conditions as far as population surveys are concerned. We do both population inventory surveys (modified Ver Hoef method) and composition / trend counts depending on the unit to be surveyed, the time of year, when the most recent population survey was conducted, weather, budgets, and other factors. We also survey 14A every year in some fashion to provide data for the Mat Valley AC and others to make decisions about authorizing antlerless hunts.

    I have listed the most current survey information and population objectives for the four subunits –

    GMU Population Objective Last Pop. Survey Estimate Bull/Cow Calf/Cow Last Comp. Survey Bull/Cow Calf/Cow

    14A 6,000 – 6,500 2008 6,613 23/100 42/100 2009 25/100 48/100

    14B 2,500 – 2,800 2009 1,662 34/100 18/100 -- -- --

    16A 3,500 – 4,000 2009 2,574 26/100 29/100 -- -- --

    16B-North 2008 917 57/100 12/100 -- -- --

    16B-Middle 2008 2,446 54/100 21/100 2009 39/100 19/100

    16B-South 1996 1,080 -- -- 2008 77/100 18/100

    16B 6,500 – 7,500 4,313 *

    * The total population estimate for 16B includes a minimum population number based on actual moose observed in 16B-South conducted in 2004

    Hopefully, this will answer your questions regarding moose populations in the Mat-Su Valley. If you need more detail regarding this information, let me know.

    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  20. #20
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    "With the switch to a winter draw for moose, we need to consider moving the AC consent votes for these hunts to late fall before the draw appication period. Having this conversation after folks have contributed many thousands of dollars and their limited choices to these hunts is not the right way to go about it." -Brian M

    Great observation, Brian. I spoke with a bio yesterday about that and asked him that very question. Refunds are a very complex legal issue, so heres the least messy option: if a person put in for one 14A cow hunt, all 3 moose choices would be refunded, and he/she would not be put in any of the moose draws they applied for. Total cost to the department of refunds would be a little over $100,000. An aerial survey costs $20-25,000. So conservatively, if the cow hunt remains unauthorized, the cost to the department would have covered 4 years worth of the best data gathering technique. Its actually a very good consequence of the MatSu ACs vote, that now the F&G and board of game need to consider when to hold the authorization vote, and be prepared for the eventuality that cow hunts will not be reauthorized.

    If potlatch hunters threaten to overharvest cows in an area, then the area bio still has EO authority to shut the hunt down. If that happened, then fall draw hunters will be SOL, because their hunt will also be closed.

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