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Thread: Sako Extractor Mod to Remington 700

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Default Sako Extractor Mod to Remington 700

    I have a Remington 700 that just will not eject properly. Most times it drops the spent brass in the magazine opening. I have tried everything I know to do. I took it today to have a Sako extractor installed on it. Has anyone had any experience with this mod???

    Steve

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    I have a custom Remington clone (Stiller Predator) with a Sako extractor. It was a PITA at first, but after some refinements in the design and changing the location of the extractor it works flawlessly. There are arguments out there that the Sako style extractor is less safe and not any more reliable than the standard Remington extractor. If the job is done right you probably won't ever notice any difference good or bad. I would question if the extractor was the problem in the first place, but since your having the work done it might change the geometry of whatever was the problem if it wasn't the extractor. Did you try changing the spring tension in the ejector button?
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  3. #3
    hap
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    And it would be so easy to fix the actual problem... I cannot imagine a bigger waste of money than a Sako extractor...

    The vast majority of ejection problems with 700s involve brass shavings and crud in the ejector plunger. The pluger is trapped by a cross pin through the bolt body and powered by one Hell of a spring.

    Carefully remove the pin which will allow the plunger to come out and the spring. Clean it well and lube with Dri-Slide. Running it hot will cause more brass shavings and more problems. If you have shiney brass in partial rings on your case heads you have all the answer you need and should consider it a wake-up notice. Tweaked rims from hard extractions are an even more blatant sign...
    YMMV
    art

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    hap
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    Blackfoot
    I respectfully submit the ejector spring "tension" cannot be the problem... It is a compression spring.

    The ejector fouls on 700s and will do so often for hotrodders (do not ask how I know) for the reasons stated above.
    art

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    Premium Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    I have a Remington 700 that just will not eject properly. Most times it drops the spent brass in the magazine opening. I have tried everything I know to do. I took it today to have a Sako extractor installed on it. Has anyone had any experience with this mod???

    Steve

    ejection and extraction are two diff. things. Like stated before.....the ejector spring could be weak, or the plunger itself gunked up. Also gauge and inspect the overall shape of the ejector.....if it's mushroomed or burred.....replace it along with the sping. The pin that captures the ejector will also have to be replaced if it has been removed. Now the custom extractor.....that's a whole other subject. What is the age of this rifle? what is this rifle chambered for? New Rem. parts are pretty cheap so maybe a quick inspection/replacement of the problematic parts will be cheaper than a custom extractor which should not be confused with ejection.

    matnaggewinu


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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I have changed many extractors.One little tweek can bugger them up

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    The rifle is a couple years old. It is a Alaskan TI in 270WSM.

    It has never been loaded with hot rounds.

    No signs of over pressure.

    I have had the ejector worked on once already. The stock spring was short and appeared to be cut instead of being tapered on the end, it was almost a coil shorter than the factory replacement.

    It worked a little better but still not right, you have to really pull back smartly to get it to throw the brass clear or the brass just drops into the mag.

    I've been told that the sharp shoulder of the 270 WSM is part of the problem.

    The chamber also has some scratches that is most likely contributing to to problem as well.

    Steve

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    Premium Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Steve,
    You seem to have some bad luck with rifles, if it wasn't your kimber acting up, not to mention their customer service....your Remington acts up too.....geeze.....u must get frustrated with this rifle business. Sometimes tolerances around the case head can be tight and not allow the spent case to "hinge" away with enough authority to clear the action. I would inspect the heck out of the bolt with a spent case to see how the case sets in the bolt. Maybe some polishing may help. Maybe the case mouth catches on the opening of the action before it is thrown from the action. Inspect the ejection process under a slow cycling of the bolt. Really eye what that case does when you pull back the bolt. Maybe a few thousandths shaved off the case mouths of the brass you use for hunting rounds?

    matnaggewinu


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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I found a fix for some of my troubles. My new Winchester with CRF, if it was a pound lighter I would be in heaven. That thing throws brass 2 feet from the rifle.

    I think most of my trouble with this issue is the 270WSM. The extreme angle of the shoulder just seems to make the entire feeding and ejection process difficult. Plus the short case has a hard time generating enough torque to throw the case.

    If this don't fix it, it will be a safe queen.

    This is a link to a video I found showing a custom rifle with the factory ejector and after it had a sako installed.

    This video shows how my rifle ejects most of the time.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g-jgOtPLjM

    Steve

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    Member Big Al's Avatar
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    Blackfoot has brought to attention a fact about using the Sako EXTRACTOR ON THE M-700 REMEINGTON ACTION. Some vary good BR gunsmiths will not install them on Remington actions. Blackfoot has a clone action of the Remington built by Stiller. This is about the same as comparing a Ferrari top a Ford Falcon. I don't really want to go through a long winded explanation as what Mike Walker was trying to do when he used the enclosed extractor in the bolt face of the early 721,722 and what became the 700 action. It was and still is one of the safest action in the world and part of the reason is still the enclosed extractor. When you stick the SAKO extractor the action is not as safe. I have and XOP-100 that I have a SAKO extractor on ad except for a Remington 40 X .22LR target rifle is the only Remington's I own. Fact of the matter for bolt rifles I don't have many that are not controlled feed. (but that's a whole another story.)I do have a live Varmint rifle that uses a SAKO action but we don't need to talk about that rifle. Lots of AR but you are kind of stuck with that extractor on AR's.


    Sako extractors with high pressure loads have a tendency to blow extractors right off the bolt. Rifles using M-16 extractors are even worse.


    Sorry to be the one to tell you this!


    The sliding extractor put on the post 64 winchesters are not as bad as the other two, Alan Hall still uses this type on his Bench Rest actions, I still favor these for type pressure that can and does happen with these actions. Remember that the only type of ammo these action sees is vary hot handloads. I would not hunt with any type of action that does not have a claw extrctor, but that's just my way. Unless I'm somewhere that does not have bear that can eat back at you.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tryants." (Thomas Jefferson

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    Well I would always prefer a CRF rifle for hunting, and I do not think much of Remington currently due to there handling of the semiauto 17 hmr issue and there general reduction in quality. I have to say there is nothing wrong with there general extractor design, the Remington 721's and 700's I have used extracted and ejected just fine. If you feel the problem is with the extractor just get a replacement. Or better yet send it to Remington and make them fix it. All that said I much prefer a CRF action for the positive feeding and the ability to pull the bolt back slow and not have my brass fly off to parts unknown.

    I have heard several stories from gunsmiths about Sako extractors on 700's blowing out of the action in case head ruptures. At least one of these blow outs occurred on a rifle a smith had modified for his own use, and thought was a good idea till the extractor blew out.

    As for the rifle in the youtube video the problem is not the extractor. The sleeve fitted on the action covers the front of the ejection port. So the brass swings into the stock ejection port and is released from the extractor. However, it then hits the wall of the sleeve bouncing it back into the action. The Sako extractor may have "solved" this but it did so by simply hanging on to the brass a little longer so that it did not release until the bass swung out the ejection port in the sleeve. That sleeve is very poorly designed in other areas as well and does not do much more then make the rifle look purple. It is hardly Remington's fault that there extractor did not function with a poorly designed aftermarket product.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info.

    The video was just to show what my rifle is doing.

    I read on another forum tonight that the staggered magazine and the sharp shoulder may cause the problem. They installed a single stack magazine and that fixed the problem.

    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    Steve,
    You seem to have some bad luck with rifles, if it wasn't your kimber acting up, not to mention their customer service....your Remington acts up too.....geeze.....u must get frustrated with this rifle business. Sometimes tolerances around the case head can be tight and not allow the spent case to "hinge" away with enough authority to clear the action. I would inspect the heck out of the bolt with a spent case to see how the case sets in the bolt. Maybe some polishing may help. Maybe the case mouth catches on the opening of the action before it is thrown from the action. Inspect the ejection process under a slow cycling of the bolt. Really eye what that case does when you pull back the bolt. Maybe a few thousandths shaved off the case mouths of the brass you use for hunting rounds?
    Both of these rifles were bought from an internet auction site, I see a trend forming!!!!
    This was a major site that I will not name, PM me if you want know which site.
    Both were sold as NEW IN BOX 100% unfired.


    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by hap View Post
    Blackfoot
    I respectfully submit the ejector spring "tension" cannot be the problem... It is a compression spring.

    The ejector fouls on 700s and will do so often for hotrodders (do not ask how I know) for the reasons stated above.
    art
    I'm no gunsmith but I know that competent gunsmith's have changed springs in the plunger ejector to try to solve ejection problems.


    "Some vary good BR gunsmiths will not install them on Remington actions. Blackfoot has a clone action of the Remington built by Stiller. This is about the same as comparing a Ferrari top a Ford Falcon."


    I got one of the prototype batches of the Predator. I talked to a few guys that also got them and were dissapointed that he used a Sako style extractor. These were guys that know a heck of a lot more than me about this stuff and had obviously seen the negative aspects of the Sako extractor that you speak of. Stiller said for some reason (I don't know) he had to use it for the Magnum bolt face actions, but used a Remington for the standard bolt face. He now advertises the Sako style on .223 bolt faces and M16 on others. I assume this was a marketing decision and not a design decision? It's more of a Mercedez or BMW than a Ferrari. The Satterlee Titanium Mauser would be the Ferrari :-)
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    What do you think of Sako extractors?

    "The Sako extractor is a good extractor, but does have some drawbacks.� The only time that I would recommend using a Sako style extractor is when changing bolt face sizes, ie. going from a .223 to a .308 or a magnum size.� The Sako extractor has been known to be blown out of the action in the event of a case failure.� If you choose to have a Sako style extractor installed, don't load to maximum or excess pressures as you don't want the extractor to become a flying object.� If at all possible, keep the original Remington extractor and use an action with the appropriate size bolt face or use another make of action with the correct bolt face.� I will only install Sako extractors in Remington actions and will not be responsible for maximum or excess loadings or any other cause of a case failure in the rifle.� If you have a Sako extractor installed, remember YOU MUST NOT LOAD to maximum or excessive loads for that rifle."

    This is from Mike Bryant's web site. He's a well known precision gunsmith.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  16. #16
    hap
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfoot View Post
    What do you think of Sako extractors?

    "The Sako extractor is a good extractor, but does have some drawbacks.� The only time that I would recommend using a Sako style extractor is when changing bolt face sizes, ie. going from a .223 to a .308 or a magnum size.� The Sako extractor has been known to be blown out of the action in the event of a case failure.� If you choose to have a Sako style extractor installed, don't load to maximum or excess pressures as you don't want the extractor to become a flying object.� If at all possible, keep the original Remington extractor and use an action with the appropriate size bolt face or use another make of action with the correct bolt face.� I will only install Sako extractors in Remington actions and will not be responsible for maximum or excess loadings or any other cause of a case failure in the rifle.� If you have a Sako extractor installed, remember YOU MUST NOT LOAD to maximum or excessive loads for that rifle."

    This is from Mike Bryant's web site. He's a well known precision gunsmith.
    blackfoot
    Realize the point he is making includes the fact the Sako extractor can become airborne if there is an excess pressure problem... IF you plug your muzzle in error with a 700, and shoot, it is designed to handle the issue with minimal risk of metal flying back at your face. The Sako extractor compromises that aspect of the design and leaves the extractor as a missile which has found flesh when blown out of an action.
    art

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    Right. I'm not trying to tout the Sako extractor. I would have to side on not having one done based on the advice of those much more knowledgable than myself.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    hap
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    Quote Originally Posted by stid2677 View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    The video was just to show what my rifle is doing.

    I read on another forum tonight that the staggered magazine and the sharp shoulder may cause the problem. They installed a single stack magazine and that fixed the problem.

    Steve
    Did they explain how a magazine affects extraction or ejection?

    Your extractor can be buggered enough to fail to hold the case head when the case first swings out of the chamber. With large square shoulders the jump between catching on the shoulder and catching on the neck can be enough to allow the case head to fall out of the extractor and dribble back into the action. That is usually exacerbated by a sticky plunger.

    I have taken apart a ton of 700, 721, seven, etc bolts and have never replaced a pluger spring that was not clearly compromised by rust or mechanical damage. I have never failed to make one resume ejecting properly. I do not stretch gun springs.

    I have seen a Fireball action rebarreled to 223AI that failed to eject properly because of the Fireball extractor location. That was fixed with a new extractor in the right place...
    art

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    Sako extractors with high pressure loads have a tendency to blow extractors right off the bolt. Rifles using M-16 extractors are even worse.

    Well in 15 years working here I have nhever seen it, and from the makers of the kits, they havent seen it either.
    Ken
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    Y'all can watch my antics on Wild West Alaska, Animal Planets new hit show.

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    Premium Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    Well in 15 years working here I have nhever seen it, and from the makers of the kits, they havent seen it either.

    The accuracy of your statement is precisely on track with WHAT rifles here in Alaska are generally used for.......HUNTING

    A "purple" hot rod rifle chambered for some hot rod bench rest cartridge......as opposed to Steve's mountain rifle.....two different things. I'd imagine no matter what extractor Steve uses.........he's not going to "blow" it out of his rifle when he downs a sheep or practices with it at the range with sensible handloads and factory cartridges designed for hunting.

    matnaggewinu


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