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Thread: If you used to be a moose hunter ...

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default If you used to be a moose hunter ...

    You need to read this thread
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=73176


    then ask your ac members Who is THEIR Constituency.. and how many they think are in it for real..... as this for thought seems to be taking hold.


    after the violent reactions at last nights Fairbanks AC meeting this should be a boisterous BOG meeting this month...


    SO what happens if the Ac's don't get THEIR Way? is that how you feel to? remember they were voted on to represent YOU in the field.
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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Thanks Vince!

    Vince, thanks for getting this kind of info out there.

    I just wanted to add one thing. The local F&G Advisory Committees aren't there just to represent hunters and anglers. They are also there to represent the fish and wildlife and habitat. The other (important) side of the coin, so to speak.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default So... Give us the skinny..

    What was so contentious at the fairbanks ac last night. inquiring minds want to know?
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Vince, thanks for getting this kind of info out there.

    I just wanted to add one thing. The local F&G Advisory Committees aren't there just to represent hunters and anglers. They are also there to represent the fish and wildlife and habitat. The other (important) side of the coin, so to speak.
    well Represent F&G seems to be on the wayside these days. most i talk too seem to think the Department is screwing them...


    contentious issues... How about antler less hunts. and allowing the take of a calf up here. see prop 33 and the departments amendment to it with the support of the middle Nenana AC that says cow, or calf... but not cow with calf that would leave an orphan...http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=72789
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  5. #5

    Wink

    Hmmmm....
    The Ethical Hunter would team up with an Unethical Hunter.
    The Unethical Buddy would first shoot the calf, perfectly legal but questionable in most eyes. Then the Ethical Hunter would shoot the (orphaned) Cow. Also quite legal but questionable in most eyes. No problem, all legal. Just another loophole in the regs for some to take advantage of. I want no part of it, but if it prevents orphaned calves then it might somehow be worth the bad rap.
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default read the other thread vote on this one...

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=73378


    the irony is this has been made about race... and preference again... while the Board of Game ( a group of folks appointed by the Governor) is in the process of establishing a report for the potlatch hunts... ( that happen state wide not just the valley) and really have never had a REAL biological impact on harvest quantity's YET.. though a knowledge base of WHAT is taken would be beneficial to the Biologist that track the herd populations. winter meat harvest has gone on for Decades and will continue.. White or native... we have had several discussions on what would you do if your family needed it.... or what if you found a guy..... bottom line is .

    the Alaska Supreme court found in favor of native Religious practices ... and as Alaska is only 50 years into state hood... they/we are still trying to do it correctly.

    vote on the poll Give Troy the data he is trying to collect. leave a comment on your feelings, debate on the first thread....And to Clarify Troy Did not vote as an AC member to stop the moose hunts... but that is clarified in the first thread...


    thanks



    Vince
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    ... while the Board of Game ( a group of folks appointed by the Governor) is in the process of establishing a report for the potlatch hunts... ( that happen state wide not just the valley) and really have never had a REAL biological impact on harvest quantity's YET..
    How do you know if there has been a biological impact or not if it hasn't been fully reported in the past?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samsoniam View Post
    How do you know if there has been a biological impact or not if it hasn't been fully reported in the past?
    Antlerless hunts are a management tool to keep herd size in check.. if the herd was failing, not calving correctly or the numbers were down..

    they would not happen... The antlerless hunts are Reauthorized EVERY YEAR. and some studies are done every fall to get a herd composition for the following year. ... In short.. if the harvest was to big... you would not have cow hunts to draw for...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  9. #9

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    Originally Posted by Vince
    ... while the Board of Game ( a group of folks appointed by the Governor) is in the process of establishing a report for the potlatch hunts... ( that happen state wide not just the valley) and really have never had a REAL biological impact on harvest quantity's YET..
    I'll try again:

    The BOG "is in the process of establishing a report for the potlatch hunts".......which............."really have never had a REAL biological impact on harvest quantities YET..."

    How do you know if potlatch harvests have "never had a REAL biological impact on harvest quantities YET" if they've never been accurately recorded?

    Isn't a report on potlatch harvests a basic tenet of the management of the game?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samsoniam View Post
    I'll try again:

    The BOG "is in the process of establishing a report for the potlatch hunts".......which............."really have never had a REAL biological impact on harvest quantities YET..."

    How do you know if potlatch harvests have "never had a REAL biological impact on harvest quantities YET" if they've never been accurately recorded?

    Isn't a report on potlatch harvests a basic tenet of the management of the game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Antlerless hunts are a management tool to keep herd size in check.. if the herd was failing, not calving correctly or the numbers were down..

    they would not happen... The antlerless hunts are Reauthorized EVERY YEAR. and some studies are done every fall to get a herd composition for the following year. ... In short.. if the harvest was to big... you would not have cow hunts to draw for...
    I did not mean to imply it could not be or was notpertianent information...

    When was the last time the Bio, said..


    OH NO!!! don't do the hunt?.... meaning there are not enough animals



    or is he more like...


    "we recommend we do it"... meaning there are enough animals.



    with any luck a reporting system will find there are more available then previously thought...

    still won't stop the 4 quarter poachers out schrock and Houston areas though...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member Alaskantrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    still won't stop the 4 quarter poachers out schrock and Houston areas though...[/QUOTE]




    Vince you seem to have a hard on for poaching in the valley, don't you think it also happens in the interior as well. How many people in the rural areas of the state take a "homesteader" moose out of season or shoot a bull and then leave it when they see they screwed up on the antler restriction. Heck in down town fairbanks I found a bull moose dead with an arrow in its kidney/back area, just left (this was during the cow hunt, no bull season open at the time) yes I did turn it into F&G. So is this a black mark on the ethics of Fairbanks hunters or is this an ignorant Alaskan hunter. I'm sure your comment will be that it is in no way a person from Fairbanks that would do this it would have to be a person from the valley. You need to start looking at the state as a whole when I buy my hunting/fishing/trapping license it is for the state not a single area.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    OH i have NO doubt it happens everywhere Jim, but while discussing impacts of the heard in 14A and the outrage of some potlachmoose... i ment to keep my comments there.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    OH i have NO doubt it happens everywhere Jim, but while discussing impacts of the heard in 14A and the outrage of some potlachmoose... i ment to keep my comments there.

    Vince this whole post has nothing about unit 14A in it you are talking about Fairbanks and Nenana AC meetings in your post and then you throw a barb in about the valley. How is this keeping your comments there? I'am aware that the Eklutna native's have taken a couple moose for their ceremonies, but the larger and more organized groups of natives that have potlatch hunts come from the interior. So again why the hard on for the valley?

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskantrapper View Post
    Vince this whole post has nothing about unit 14A in it you are talking about Fairbanks and Nenana AC meetings in your post and then you throw a barb in about the valley. How is this keeping your comments there? I'am aware that the Eklutna native's have taken a couple moose for their ceremonies, but the larger and more organized groups of natives that have potlatch hunts come from the interior. So again why the hard on for the valley?
    Jim the hole post is a redirect to the conversations in the Game management threads
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  15. #15

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    My understanding of antlerless hunts is that it is allowed to allow meat hunts while providing the area biologist with at tool to manage bull/cow ratios. Winning draw hunters record their anterless hunts like all other sport moose hunters.

    My understanding of the potlatch situation is that it is not recorded on a harvest ticket and reported to ADFG like sport harvests are. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). The problem with this should be obvious for all to see. Simply put, there is a harvest occurring which is not quantified.

    What many appear to be unhappy about is the belief that there are no potlatch harvests occurring in the area that the Mat-Su Advisory Council advises about. That may or may not be true. I don't know. I would not be surprised to learn that the Chickaloon, Knik, and/or Eklutna villages are either harvesting moose now for potlatches or have sought to do so.

    Could this be the case?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    .....with any luck a reporting system will find there are more available then previously thought...
    I would think that a report of moose harvested for potlatches would simply bring department estimates closer to reality than just guessing.

    still won't stop the 4 quarter poachers out schrock and Houston areas though...
    I'm not familiar with poachers out there. If you have such knowledge, I would suspect the Troopers do, also.

  16. #16
    Member Alaskantrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    Jim the hole post is a redirect to the conversations in the Game management threads
    Then why redirect just comment on the post that is started. By adding the link and then commenting on your local AC's this is not a redirect it is a new conversation. Also what has poaching got to do with the antlerless hunting / potlatch hunting? Don't see the relevance here. Potlatch hunters also harvest bulls as well. Still you haven't answered why the hard on for the valley, this isn't the only post you've complained about the valley.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default Cause Vince grew up here but, Moved on up, to the eastside!

    Just like the Jefferson's, Vince has moved on up.
    Couldn't resist Vince!!!
    In the reverse I used to live in Fairbanks in the 70's, and then I moved to the Anchorage/Mat-su area. Did I move up or down? Just asking!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member Huntress's Avatar
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    Default

    Coming from someone who lived in NP and Fairbanks the whole first 20 years of her life......I moved up, when I moved down.....(anyone with brains knew to move as soon as you were out of high-school)......

    (Now back to our regularly scheduled program)......
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