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Thread: NEwsFLASH... MAT-SU AC votes down

  1. #1
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default NEwsFLASH... MAT-SU AC votes down

    To re-authorize antlerless moose hunts for this year. Trying to send a message to Fish and Game/Board of game to get up and do something about potlatch moose hunts. Not much accountability on real numbers or control of same. The feeling was if the biologists have no real grasp of the numbers, how can we in good faith just rubber stamp their request.THERE WILL be some pissed off people that applied for permits.
    I sure hope the internet does not list our home addresses!!!
    To be honest, we are cutting off our noses to spit our face.
    It is assumed that if cow hunts are suspended, people might just get angry enough to get some real traction on this un-controlled hunt, and the system that it supports. NO real numbers on potlatch take, no accountability or even a real system of checks and balances.
    That said, We could be outvoted by the other local AC's but that will be yet, to be seen. Tootles
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Interesting.... whats next sleeping outside in your sleeping bags all winter?


    While I agree that there needs to be a better way to handle the potlach hunts this seems like a completely eroneous step.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Interesting. While I understand the frustration with the potlatch moose hunt system, voting down the cow moose hunts seems an odd way to send the message.

    If it does indeed get voted down by other ACs, does that mean that the 2010 hunt can't happen? I know that with a lot of other changes to drawing permit hunts that F&G doesn't apply the change until the following year so as to not affect those who have already applied. Seems like that approach would make sense here as well.

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    Member ksbha4's Avatar
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    Default ???

    Lucky me. This was the first year I have ever applied for cow tags in this area.
    Ask not what your government can do for you. Ask how your government can go away and get out of your life

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Interesting. While I understand the frustration with the potlatch moose hunt system, voting down the cow moose hunts seems an odd way to send the message.

    If it does indeed get voted down by other ACs, does that mean that the 2010 hunt can't happen? I know that with a lot of other changes to drawing permit hunts that F&G doesn't apply the change until the following year so as to not affect those who have already applied. Seems like that approach would make sense here as well.
    and while the gloves were off, and hair was flying at the Fairbanks AC meeting last night.



    if antleress hunts are voted down then...that WILL affect 2010 fall season. as thats what their in line for.. the antlerless hunts are reauthorized every year. .. The mat su AC was also handed a piece of their own rear ends at the board of game round table discussion regarding potlatch moose. both presentation and appearance by members of that AC were distasteful and under-prepared at best.


    this should be an interesting season for BOG... off to take kiddos to school more laters....The
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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Thumbs down just great guys...

    okay, so authorizing cow moose hunts is the ONLY authority an AC really has, but instead of judging the hunt on it's merits and carrying capacity of the habitat you decided to use this "power" as a political chess piece?
    you should be ashamed.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure potlatch number are less than poaching and road kill numbers. I believe your nose is gone and purpose of groups power abused

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Thanks for the word, whop.

    Oh well, I've been saying that the ACs shouldn't have sole authority to authorize antlerless hunts in IM areas. Imagine this decision by the Mat-Su AC will put the same notion in the minds of those with the power to change it.

  9. #9

    Default "send a message"

    Very poor way to address the pot-latch moose hunts! But is a good way to deflate the one mussel the Valley AC is trying to flex. This will not help the Region 2 split I have been hearing about. I am not a fan of cow hunts in general, but when we have a quota and not trying to increase the habitat for a larger heard I will do my part. Nor am I in favor of the unreported/unregulated Pot-latch hunts, but this is not the way to "get traction". I don't have a fix for the issue, but I think this is not the way to get it started. From what I have heard this potlatch is open to anyone who can jusify the permit need. If in fact this is the case, why dont the public go to the Dept. and start requesting permits? The increase in demand should raise some flags. Just a thought.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default From what I understand...

    The Dept of Law has not said whether the new rules for potlatch are for Native or Non Native. So that has been discussed. I know the AC has been thinking of applying for an AC Potlatch and to see what the Department does.
    That said, I tried to keep this from happening but I was only three of the people that voted to allow these cow hunts. Heck, I put in for one every year and win once every ten years.
    Lately here in the Valley, that is about the only way to score moose meat. I only hunt locally, out for 15 days of the 25-30 day season, see an average of 20 bulls but not one legal one. I'm bummed personally but I'm more disappointed for the 450-500 cow permits that won't be exercised this year. That means the AC took those animals off the docket and families will be going without. I too believe it was futile , but the guys were so frustrated that this vote did occur.
    If the other local AC's vote to allow cow hunting, then this decision would be out voted and over turned. I believe that is how it would work, at least I think it is anywho. So for those of you wanting to hunt cows here in the Valley, better hope the other Local AC's approved the hunt. Comments and votes have to be in my tomorrow so arm twisting now is a moot point.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whop2000
    I know the AC has been thinking of applying for an AC Potlatch and to see what the Department does.
    The news just gets stranger and weirder! Hate to say this, but your AC has some deep-seated problems if this is the way the majority thinks. And in the end you know what all this does? It makes the AC look bad and likely reduces any clout it may have.

    So this is the result of the latest election that had historic turnout? Pshaw.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    The Dept of Law has not said whether the new rules for potlatch are for Native or Non Native. So that has been discussed. I know the AC has been thinking of applying for an AC Potlatch and to see what the Department does.
    That said, I tried to keep this from happening but I was only three of the people that voted to allow these cow hunts. Heck, I put in for one every year and win once every ten years.
    Lately here in the Valley, that is about the only way to score moose meat. I only hunt locally, out for 15 days of the 25-30 day season, see an average of 20 bulls but not one legal one. I'm bummed personally but I'm more disappointed for the 450-500 cow permits that won't be exercised this year. That means the AC took those animals off the docket and families will be going without. I too believe it was futile , but the guys were so frustrated that this vote did occur.
    If the other local AC's vote to allow cow hunting, then this decision would be out voted and over turned. I believe that is how it would work, at least I think it is anywho. So for those of you wanting to hunt cows here in the Valley, better hope the other Local AC's approved the hunt. Comments and votes have to be in my tomorrow so arm twisting now is a moot point.
    Okay Whop...

    questions..


    first did the Mat su vote down ONLY mat su antler less?
    or state wide?


    second... i will reiterate what i told them and the anchorage ac.. at the state wide BOG..


    IF YOU ARE ON THE BOARDS FOR POLITICAL ASPIRATIONS OR HAVE AGENDAS.. YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS BEING ON THEM!!!!!!!!


    The Ac is supposed to represent the constituency as an entirety. NOT as a neighbor hood.

    i am noticing more and more a singly close minded aptitude regarding many of our game laws, hunting practices, and entitlments...

    for instance. the BOG instigated a new policy that is still in the dpt of law being written. and pot latch is intended for NATIVE funeral / mortuary religious pracitice... not memorial a year later...

    a reporting system will be in place when completed Werther it is native council with permits or mandatory reports with in 15 days... depending on locations...

    however since the group of good ol boys( all but one) that came to the meeting dressed in used Transmission fluid, sporting anti Semitic attudes...( I mean come on the only thing missing was the swastika on the t - shirt...) did not get their way so the took it out on the rest of the constituency they are SUPPOSED TO BE representing. rather they represented the neighbor hood of Buddy's they talk to daily. and they were the ones asking people to be outraged!... I would be if they represented me.... what a bunch of... B S !!

    POT LATCH is part of state law. deal with it...

    I sat and listened to lots of people complain the mat su and Anchorage Ac's did not make others welcome at the meetings. then they the ac members complained NO ONE SHOWS UP!!!!! unh!!! HELLO!!!!! if you run every one that has a different opinion off ... it is easy to form your own uneducated,opinion and force it down the throat of every one else.

    i sat and spoke with the chair of anchorage ac, as well many of the Anchorage AC members... the chair gave a GREAT presentation of his issues... HIS>

    regarding the ac position he was under prepared, ill informed (as presented) and inconsistant... all the while AC members behind him were fuming.. why? because he did not like the position the AC took so did not report it accuratly...

    and this AC is supposed to represent the greatest portion of Alaska's populations? seconded by the MAT SU????

    Not only did you all make a mockery of the election process, you threw out, common sense and reason, with the dishwater. you forgot WHO the hell your supposed to be supporting and looking out for.

    Keep in mind, the only people that show up at the meetings, are the upset ones... but if you run them off you can not educate them to understand the way of it..you can not educate them to understand the reason behind it, you can not educate them, WHY? you can not present the biology to them, you can not present the folks that are asking you for it and their reasons why, AND most importantly; you do not understand WHY they are upset... the common tread i witnessed from these two AC committees was this...


    ":if they don't agree with us they are ant's and the Ac's should be for consumptive users only"

    sorry guys.. stop burning moose leg crosses, and get down to business like your supposed to be.... look out your windows there are THOUSANDS of people affected by your lame idiotic temper tantrums,,,, most have never heard of you.
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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    WOW!
    great rant, vince!!!
    well said.
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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Vince, you pretty much hit that one out of the ballpark.

    Appreciate you pounding that out on the keyboard! I could kinda envision your facial expression when you were doing it too <grin>.

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Vince, you pretty much hit that one out of the ballpark imo.

    Appreciate you pounding that one out on the keyboard!
    Thanks Mark, it was easy as i said nearly verbatim to their faces During the First round table discussion at the State wide meeting. though this BS of political Pandering was not on the table at that moment.
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Thumbs up right on

    WTG Vince. Thanks for that rant. Spread it.

  17. #17
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default Re...

    Just proposal 114, for the local Mat-su Area. Let me be fair and say that some people were upset that the numbers didn't add up yearly and the Biologist, Tony, couldn't explain where a lot of these animals went to. Example, in a four year period, 2004 to 2008, the population was given at @ 6600. Yet, 2000 are killed outside of the reportable harvest data. In that period, 74 Potlatch requests went to the Palmer office. Where is that 500 moose, yearly, going? How many were cows? We are losing 500 animals a year w/o issueing cow permits.How many were poached and when caught, said Potlatch. So they were not cited?
    Too many unanswered questions yet fish and game comes every year and asks for those extra permits. Too many questions and not enough answers, to just rubber stamp another years worth of cow permits.
    By the way Vince, I changed before the meeting last night and was wearing sweats, not transmission stained overalls
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

  18. #18
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Ken, prop 114 concerns Unit 14(A) only. Says the current moose pop. is at or above the mgmt objectives.

    There is no reason not to authorize antlerless hunts. None at all.

    It really doesn't matter if it's mostly cars, trains, or people killing moose outside the harvest regs, in terms of there still being enough moose to allow for some antlerless hunts.

    I am not sure if the Mat-Su AC has sole authority though on this for Unit 14(A). Does anyone know? I would venture though, that between now and the Board meeting end of this month, that your AC will change its mind <grin>.

  19. #19
    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Default Bushrat,

    Loaned out my booklet so I'm not sure of the number of the prop. Maybe prop 116? Nice thing about alheimer's is that you make new friends... Every day!!! It is just for the local Wasilla area only!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Default sounds like

    Sounds like tea bagging style politics. Not surprised being it's the Valley. Cut off your noses to spite your faces.

    This is the reason professionals should run things and those with agendas should stay out of it.
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