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Thread: Any WWII Ammo collectors here?

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    Default Any WWII Ammo collectors here?

    Any WWII Ammo collectors here?

    1940 Frankfurt Arsenal 30-06,,, Trivia Question:
    How did they make the bullets silver colored?
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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    cupronickel jacketed bullet??

    ...One thing to look out for from this period is ball rounds with a silver tip, headstamped F A 41. These were an M1 Ball contract for the U.S. Navy and were given a silver tip to distinguish them from the M2 ball rounds which were in service by then. The lot number was 2160 and you can sometimes find sealed boxes of these where the seller is unaware of their silver tip. Ball rounds with silver tips headstamped F A 41 are often sold as Armor-piercing Incendiary (API) rounds but the silver tip ID for API rounds didn't appear until 1943.

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    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    ok... nmnd, just an rifle range deal with the round identifier or range safety back in the day... acid bath stuff.,..

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    in 1936, and only then was the M1 ammunition issued in bulk for training. Upon the issuance of the M1 ammunition, there was an alarming realization - the M1 ammunition had so much more range and momentum than the M1906 ammunition that it began to shoot beyond the impact zones of existing ranges! The National Guard Bureau (NGB) then asked the War Department to make up a batch of ten million rounds with the same characteristics as the old M1906 round.
    The "new" short range ammunition was virtually a clone of the M1906 round. It used a 150 grain flat based bullet, but the ogive was shaped like that of the M1. By the late 1930's, this "new" ammunition had reached the service evaluation boards (by now minus all the old World War One machine gunners who had so keenly felt the lack of range in the original M1906 round). The new round had lower recoil than the M1, and more rounds could be carried for a given weight of ammunition, so in 1940, the new round (with a bullet weight of 152 grains owing to a slightly different lead alloy) was standardized as the Cartridge, Ball, Caliber .30, M2. The M2 cartridge boasted a muzzle velocity of 2,805 feet per second. The armor piercing analog to the M2, the Cartridge, Armor Piercing, Caliber .30, M2 fires a 168 grain bullet at 2,775 feet per second muzzle velocity.
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    I'm not sure but I think they were a high nickle copper jacket

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    Originally the 30-06 U.S. military round was originally loaded with a 150-grain cupro-nickel jacketed bullet referred to as the "M1906" bullet.

    During WWI the military began to rethink this as the use of machine guns at relatively long range required a heavier bullet. Towards the end of WWI and for several years after, the U.S. experimented with different heavier bullets. This series of tests is often referred to as the "Daytona Beach" tests after the place where some of the test firings were conducted.

    The tests eventually (around 1926) resulted in the adoption of the M1 bullet - a 172-grain boat-tail with a gilding metal (copper alloy) jacket.
    This was a great machine gun round but it tended to kick the heck out of soldiers who had to fire lots of rounds from 1903 Bolt action rifles.

    This was not a problem at first because most State-Side training was done using older 1906 ammunition.

    However by the late 1930s the old M-1906 ammo had run dry and the newer M-1 boat-tail ammo had to be issued to everyone needing to be trained or re qualified. This included the National Guard units which may not have had extended rifle ranges.
    An immediate problem arose in that the newer M-1 boat-tail round would exit the end of many national Guard rifle ranges.


    So work started on what was to become the M-2 30 caliber round.

    So according to Julian Hatcher's book, the National Guard Bureau ordered an initial lot of ammunition loaded with a 150 grain flat based bullet. But they wanted the same ogive shape as the M1 ammo. This ammo was initially loaded to a reduced velocity.

    This very early M-2 ammunition had a silver color that was not cupro-nickel jacket , but a "stannic stain" that was applied to the gilding metal jacket to make it look like the old M1906 cupro-nickel jacket.

    The color served to distinguish this new M2 Ball ammunition from the 172 grain M1 Ball that was being made concurrently. The use of the stain was discontinued in September 1940.

    Soon there after the velocity on the standardized M2 150 grain cartridge was increased up to about 2,800 fps.

    Marine Corps Sniper units reportedly hoarded older M-1 rounds with their 172 grain boat tail.

    Most combat units during WWII actually ended up using 30 caliber M2 armor piercing cartridges that had a bullet weighing about 170 grains. The AP round with the turned steel core was supposedly more accurate and had a longer range than the M2 ball ammo. Although it kicked just like the 1926 M-1 ammo

    These rounds were recovered from a buried bunker near Seward Alaska.
    Seward being the site of Fort Raymond and other military installations during WWII.
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